Shovels, Onions, & Spirit Animals: From Suffering with Depression to Peace and Grace | Martin Theis

The effects of suicide on the living, depression, shovels, onions, your spirit animal, all this and more in this episode of the podcast.

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Hello, friends. I’m David Pasqualone, and welcome to this new year and a new episode of the Remarkable People Podcast. Now of course, our episodes are evergreen, and you may be listening to this in 2027, but right now this should be released in January of 2023, [00:01:00] a new year for us all. A glorious fresh start and we are released.

The Remarkable people book volume one, how they did it, and you can too. That’s right. Check out the show notes or website or Amazon to pick up your copy today. It’s a great book and I’m not selling it because I wanna make money. I’m selling it cuz I want to help you, your friends, your family, and a hundred percent of every penny.

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It’s a great. Please look at it, buy it, send it to your friends, and more than anything use it and let us know the [00:02:00] results. As for today, like the pre-roll said, you’re going to hear about our friend Martin Tyson. Martin had someone that he was close to as you’re about to hear, commit suicide. At a young age.

Then that carried through and he struggled with depression, and he talks about his journey of overcoming the depression, but still being real about it and knowing that if he’s not careful, it can always sneak back in. Just like if we’re an alcoholic or a drug addict or a porn addict or a food addict, you can have victory.

But you gotta be smart and wise and don’t let that monkey come back in. So we’re gonna talk about shovels. We’re gonna talk about onions, we’re gonna talk about whacking the monkey with a shovel. We’re gonna talk about a ton of great stuff. We’re even gonna talk about our spirit animals, and we’re gonna balance this with the different beliefs that you or I may have or may not have with how the same truth that comes from the Bible is kind of spread through [00:03:00] everything.

So we are not ecumenical at. We believe there’s one God and one real truth and one solution. However, people all over the world for generations have presented it differently. So Martin comes at it from a different approach as we would, but as you’re gonna see everything matches up with scripture. It’s just a different path to healing.

The ultimate bottom line is we want you to know the scriptures real, the Bible. We want you to know God loves you, and we want you to know you can have truth and victory and healing, and joy and peace in every aspect of your life. But it’s a journey and God gives us free will and you have to accept it.

So at this time, Martin’s gonna share his journey and how he went from depression to grace and peace, and how he’s thriving and living a better life every day. So get out your pens and paper. Listen to this Remarkable episode and like our [00:04:00] slogan, Don’t just listen to the great content, but do it. Repeat it each day so you can have a great life in this world, but most importantly, an eternity to come.

Enjoy the episode.

[00:04:14] Martin Theis INTERVIEW Shovels Onions Spirit Animals From Suffering with Depression to Peace and Grace: Hey Martin, how are you today, brother? I am very well, thank you. How are you man? I’m fantastic. I’m Remarkable even. I was just telling our audience about you and a little bit about your story, and they are ready to hear it. So at this time, let’s just jump in. We’re gonna go through your journey of life.

You can take us back as far as birth and bring us through today. Then at the end of the show, we’re gonna transition into where’s Marron today and where are you heading so we can all work together to help you get there and keep growing ourselves. But before we go on, there’s listeners who are gonna listen to just a few seconds.

What can they expect from you? In this episode, we’re gonna get tons of gold and tons of nuggets that they can apply to [00:05:00] life. But if there was one takeaway that if like you sit down and you listen to this episode, this is what you’re gonna walk away with, what would that be? That’s a beautiful question.

So I would say it’s a shovel. The image is a shovel. If you feel stuck in life and you don’t know what’s going on, what am I doing? The question that I asked myself the most was probably, what am I doing here? And the shovel is kind of like, it is, it is not an easy way out. It’s not something an easy fix, but it is.

If we keep at it, we will get to the top. We get out of that hole, and in the end we’ll be even be elevated. You know? That’s why I felt called to, to talk with you because I feel there is so many things that we can do, but we just have to do them. And then we’re so much better at the end. That’s, that’s what I would say.

The shovel is the image getting outta that situation. So if you’re [00:06:00] listening to this and you feel stuck, Martin’s gonna go through his own journey of not just how he felt stuck. And how he succeeded. But he’s gonna fill in the gaps with the practical steps of how he got unstuck. And you can too. And I can too.

And everybody can too. So Martin, at this time, take it away, brother. Bring us through your journey. Go as far back as you’d like, because everything that happened to us, good, bad, and ugly in life makes us the men and women we are today. And we want to hear about your journey. Who, how did you get to the place you are?

Where did it all start? And we’re just ready to hear. And. Hmm. Thank you so much. I mean, this is a really daunting feat, but I will do my best to give it credit in the sense that it’s such, it’s such a long journey, right? And we tend to forget certain things. But I would say it all probably started in a, in a, in a, in a way where I’m a very [00:07:00] sensitive person and have been a very sensitive child and growing up in families with with issues.

I mean, everybody pretty much lives in a, it grows up in a family that has some kind of issues, right? Where there’s relationships between the parents that affect us. But that was the first thing that I would say was difficulties. I, I needed to succumb. Later in life. I didn’t know it at the time, where it is about maybe narcissistic disorders where you have one parent who is just like feeding off the emotions of the spouse or the partner or the children and where it’s about boundaries and wanting to please the the parents because you just want, want, want that love back.

Right. And so I would say that is, that is a starting point when we go all the way back. And [00:08:00] then the most difficult situation was when we had a suicide in the family. And I was 16 at the time and it was my cousin was one of my best friends and that created a big shockwave of things. Unraveled over the years, you know, so I would say the, the, the difficulties that I had was the sensibility and sensitivity, but also then that way of the, the whole, the gap and the way that I perceived a suicide in a sense that every time I, I, I embarked on a challenge or when something was really difficult for me, I was considering the suicide as an option because that was what I got kind of like, you know, into, or what, what I was experiencing at the time.

So yeah, I, I don’t know if that makes any [00:09:00] sense, but these are really the, the difficulties that, that I had to face at some point resulting in depression, you know, I would, that’s why I came up with with Image of the shovel because it felt so, I felt so low, so disconnected from everyone and everything.

And kind of like being able to find a way out of that. Some people call it like like mist or fog or something where you really don’t know where to go because it’s all foggy. Some people describe it as very heavy sensation and it’s hard to get out to get into movement or being down somewhere, you know?

So yeah, these, these were. So now going back, cuz that’s, to have a suicide, especially someone you’re close with, that’s a huge impact [00:10:00] on anybody’s life. But to have to process that on your own, nobody’s given those skills. I mean, innately you don’t know how to solve massive problems. That’s why learning from others is so important.

Did your family, were they able to help you accept it and understand it as much as a 16 year old could? Or were you kinda left to hang and figure out on your own? Yeah, I think what, what, what I would describe as everyone kind of dealt with it in their own way. or didn’t deal with it like that. Just everybody was a little bit more to, to themselves because it was such a big impact in our family and the family of my uncle, of course, because it was his child.

So but there was no, no support in terms of the family, and it was so painful. You know, I, I remember I went to a therapist maybe 1, 2, [00:11:00] 3 years later or something, I can’t say when, but it was still so difficult. The initial questions that he asked, I couldn’t really answer and face because it was just so brutal in a sense that I I got out and didn’t go into that therapy because it was so vivid, you know?

So I would say everybody dealt with it or did choose to, didn’t deal with it in a sense. Some, some dealt with it in a, in a more healthy way, others in more destructive ways. Yes. And looking back now, you grew up in Germany also, correct? Yeah. Yeah. That’s a huge cultural difference. There’s one race, the human race, but the cultures are different all over the world.

So when I was growing up and you were growing up, I was in America and it was almost looked down upon to seek the help of a counselor. It wasn’t like today where I was accepted. So in Germany, I’m assuming, but you know, what happens when we assume. Yeah. Of that day and age, was counseling [00:12:00] accepted or was it taboo?

I think I was too young to really know and wasn’t really yet aware of, of that. I just, I think it was probably a little more aware that there, there weren’t so many psych psychologists or therapists in that sense. So I would say there’s probably been a shift that. ? I would say it’s probably similar.

I don’t, I don’t know for sure, but I would say the United States and Germany were probably similar in that sense, where it just opened up to be something that is acceptable in society and where people can actually talk about that. They’re getting help from a professional in terms of mind or yeah.

Yeah. And like you said, it was so bad, the pain dealing with it, you’re like, I’m not gonna go to therapy because I don’t want to deal with this pain. Is that what I’m hearing? Yeah, [00:13:00] yeah. Absolutely. I, I couldn’t, like, not, I don’t want to, but it was just like, I just couldn’t, so usually most people will self-medicate then it can be anything from drugs to porn to overeating.

How did you deal with the pain at that age? Yeah, so that’s, that’s where depression comes in, you know, suppression just. Plain suppression of emotion, which then turns into this depletion or this kind of like totally mentally isolated state. I would say that was how I dealt with it in the long run. I was an athlete at the time and still was, was doing a lot of sports, so maybe that helped in that sense and but I, I didn’t, never really tended to u overuse drugs or food or consumption.

It was just [00:14:00] more always trying to get out of my skin in the sense, if that makes any sense. I was just always trying to be somewhere else trying to find that grass, which is greener on the other side because I couldn’t stand where I was. Mm-hmm. . So it was always this fleeing get I need to get out of here.

You know? So talk to us then, from that point in your life moving forward, there’s a big gap between, you know, where you had the pain and where you found healing . Yeah. So take us through that journey, Martin. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. And it’s been, it’s been a, a coincidence where my, my best friend did a shamanic journey seminar.

I just spoke about that. And uh, he talked about it and he talked about spirit animals and that he had found his spirit animal. And I was in Cologne at the time studying, and I was really intrigued and fascinated by what he told me. And so I, I [00:15:00] I attended a seminar myself. And that was, that was the, the, the starting point for me to open up spiritually actually.

And started to listening to. spiritual teachers and just slowly, slowly would, would say what, what? Slowly I realized that the state that I was in was not necessarily or didn’t have to be like that continuously in the future. It that even though I knew this, this depleted and depressive state and maybe a little.

There were highs, you know, but there were really kind of like short highs that didn’t have any su substance. So this continuous up and down, I felt there is a way out when I started listening to the spiritual teachers and started doing the [00:16:00] work to dive into my inner realm and to start listening to my emotion, or at least being able to understand that there were emotions because I didn’t feel anything to be like, when we look at the status quo from that time on, when I started, when my teacher would ask me, how do you feel?

I would know because I just did not have the capacity to, to dive to, to feel that because I had suppressed all my emotions to that point, you know? If that makes any sense. Yeah, totally, man. Totally. Yeah. So when you are, you’re suppressing these emotions, your buddy’s telling you about a way that he’s finding some peace.

So you start studying and getting involved and what’s that look like? What does that journey look like? Because it, yeah, I mean, I don’t want anybody to think everybody has pain. We all deal with it different ways. The healthiest way is painful, [00:17:00] but it leads you to joy in peace. And I’m sure this journey didn’t take you a couple days and everything’s magically better.

Right. , it takes some time. Correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean it, and it is, it is, like I said, it’s been such a long time now for me that it’s sometimes hard to, to, to find that, find that complete path to walk it all the way back. So in order to bring you there, but I would, I would say the, the journey in itself, Is the from, from, from suffering to peace or to grace.

Right. And so the shamanic journeys that I did, and I still do, and I, and, and that I integrated and incorporated in my, in my program, are helping us to connect with our subconscious in any way that we perceive. Some people see themselves and [00:18:00] do visually, others feel others hear more. So we go, we connect with our subconscious and we have assignments that the teacher or the mentor gives the circle or the person who’s journeying.

And the totem animal or a spirit animal journey is just an example where we go into that realm into. Non-ordinary reality. It’s called in a different form of reality where we find our spirit animal. And the spirit animal just is something that shows up as our potential in animal form, if that we can talk about it a, a little later.

But just to make this this a little clearer, I do this shamanic journey. I find my spirit animal and my spirit animal can tell me certain things because I have questions that I’m supposed to ask. And I ask my spirit animal, is there something you need from [00:19:00] me? And is there something you have for me?

And depending on the situation I was in, it has some advice for me. It has some stop doing this, or I need some more love from you. Or maybe it is important to set boundaries. Whatever that spirit animal tells me in that situation is something that I can bring back into reality. And then, Start integrating.

And so the whole journey that I, that I’m in still in, since I got back from Hawaii, I have certain things that I learn and that are easy and that come to me, but then I go back into a situation and I have to integrate it in that situation. And I would say the Shamanic journeys, in addition to the spiritual teachings from teachers like Ramdas or or Wayne Dyer, are just helping me to integrate that.

And it is that continuous learning, you know, hearing something, integrating it into my [00:20:00] life, seeing where, where I’m stuck, where it’s still difficult, where I react really violently maybe or where I’m getting mad or sad, you know? And to just be, become more and more open to. To these inner emotions as well as our perception or my perception of reality in how I can become a more loving person and compassionate person in the process.

So talk about, I think some of the techniques and some of the terms you’re using. You know, people who come at life from a different worldview. Yeah. A lot of times they’re talking about the same process, but they’re using different terms. So for instance, I’m listening to you about, you’re listening to your spirit animal, and I believe there’s, I believe, again, you don’t have to agree with me.

I believe there’s [00:21:00] one God, one creator, he loves us all. There’s one race, the human race he sent us on Jesus to die for us so we could be saved, and then we get the Holy Spirit for peace and joy. Right? So when you’re talking about the spirit animal, and you’re conferring and it’s telling you how to teach and to grow.

To me, that’s like what I have with the Holy Spirit is like, yeah, the Holy Spirit will convict me if I’m doing something wrong. Not even mistake, but stupid sin choice that’s bad. And then it’ll also encourage me when I’m down the Holy Spirit is, you know, the piece of the path to all understanding. Is that kind of what you’re referring to as a spirit animal?

Hmm, that’s a, that’s a really good question. So in a sense, because I said the, the, the, maybe it is, it is a little bit more it is a step in between maybe, you know, so the spirit animal or more being a little bit more closely related to us [00:22:00] individually, because there, like depending on. If your spirit animal is let’s say a wolf or an ego, there is different qualities in the animals that, that we get mirrored what is kind of like our behaviors are hunting patterns or what, what our enemies look like.

It is a little bit more, it’s not as broad and as general as the Holy Spirit in the sense where that it guides us. So it’s still at your, this is really high plain. Yeah. This is really, so your spirit is still, you at a representation are kind of like your level, but there’s still that ultimate God above all of it.

Yes. I mean the, the, the Great spirit or the, the universe got what, whatever you want to call it, in which language. Absolutely. You know, it’s just, That help or our, our, our potential in, in an [00:23:00] animal form so that we have an aid in understanding what what, what is good for us, what we need to be aware of.

And it’s, it’s really just, it’s ob observing that. But I’m not doing that all the time. You know, I know my, my totem animals or my spirit animals, and I do work with them and I see that there’s certain, certain things that I can learn from them, but it is just, for me, it’s also a lot about just accepting myself.

And the animal helps me in doing that because it just shows me certain qualities in me that I can’t see at the moment, you know? Nice. And it is, it is just a very nature-based approach. Which to me I’m, I’m really open to many, many different [00:24:00] perspectives and Christianity is one of them and Buddhism is another one.

And so I feel the shamanic teachings that I grew up or grew into helped me to reconnect with nature in the sense that I really started to appreciate nature much, much more. And, and I’m not saying the other perspectives or religions or approaches are not doing that. It was just for me, the perfect connector to connect with the earth again and appreciate life and everything.

And, and through that I found my way back into Christianity. Whereas before I was raised Roman Cath Roman Catholic, I really had kind of like. didn’t wanna deal with the church and Christianity anymore because I, I kind of like saw certain things that I didn’t like, which were not the essence of what was taught, which was just the institution, right?

Mm-hmm. . And so through the shamanic [00:25:00] approach, I found my way back to the connection with God and with everything and the Holy Spirit in its sense, you know, to come. Yeah. You focus on the relationship, not the religion. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So now let’s, so you get involved in this and then quickly define, cuz not of all our, all of our listeners know like a shamanic belief.

Des describe in a nutshell, quickly, like what’s that belief system look like? Because like you mentioned, there’s different belief systems, but when you’re going to this, it’s shamanism, right? Yeah. Yeah. So what, what does that belief system look like in a nutshell? That’s different because again, the way I come at it is, like you and I were discussing, there’s one true God, but different cultures have different stories and define him differently because of how they experienced him and communicate with [00:26:00] him.

So, you know, if you were in Greece and you were in South America during the great flood, the stories are written down. It’s all documented, it’s all proven, but it’s different perspectives. You know, like every culture that’s ever existed in 7,000 years is humanity. There’s a story of a great flood, but people define it differently.

So when you’re talking about shamanism, talk quickly about that belief system, what it is, and then we’ll move forward and how it helped you heal. Yeah. So I think sha shaman or shamanism is probably a container word because it’s, it’s a lot. A lot of indigenous cultures and cultures from that lived close with the earth have, have this, and it’s spread in different regions, right?

So it is kind of like it’s a global or a pan global thing. There is, but it is more nature based and it is about the [00:27:00] connection to the earth. See, working with, with el elements and animals, like I said, and medicine. So it is just like this, this old way of living in connection with the earth, but also learning from the earth and being able to read yeah, to kind of, to read and understand nature in a sense where it is.

It is, we, this is such a, such a, a compelling question because I feel there’s so many different approaches in ch in, in shamanistic traditions, you know, depending on if it is northern American, southern American, maybe even in the, in India Russian and Asian continent, where it’s more Mongolia. You know, there’s so many different cultures and tribes that I feel it is, it is difficult to, to [00:28:00] subsidize that, but the connection to the earth and through that connection with the, the great spirit, the creator, living in harmony with animals, plants, the earth and humans that would.

My best shot at . No, that’s great. That’s great. I just, yeah, we all have different backgrounds and some of us have been exposed to more than others, but a lot of times we’re stuck in a sect of religion. And you could be, and forgive me, did I pronounce it right? Like I always say Shamanism, is there a better pronunciation?

No, I don’t think so. Okay. But like when I’m speaking with someone, whether they are a Baptist or a Buddhist, or whether they’re Catholic, there’s always, if you dig a foundation of truth, that never changes. Yeah. I mean, you just can’t, like you, [00:29:00] real science, real nature, real truth, it doesn’t change. And then the way people interpret it or explain it, that changes.

So I don’t want to throw the baby out with a bathwater because I could be talking to someone who, at first it sounds like we have very different beliefs. Yeah. But really, It’s closer than we think. So like, I believe the truth. The Bible has all the truth in the world and explains it clearly, but I’m really interested to hear your journey.

So you’re hurting, you’re suppressing, you’re, you don’t know how to deal with stuff. You get involved in shamanism, you’re finding your totem animal. Bring us that process through the healing. Yeah. So the, the, the process is I see it as like an onion or something that has layers, you know, from, from, from a total disconnect from, and, and if we, if we use that, [00:30:00] the, maybe that approach that you refer to the connection with God, I would say you know the Course in Miracles or a Course in Miracles?

Have you heard about that? Yeah, I’ve heard of that, yes. Okay. So that is just like, because that’s my, my most continuous teaching that I’m using that is based on a, on a Christian terminology. And so I would say when, when we’re in that, when we’re completely with God, when we are in that, in that Christ state, right then there is, there is no more layers.

We’re, we’re completely, we are in our human, in our human form, but we are also 100% in this spirit, in that sense that we, that we are love and compassion and we just are right. That total presence and coming, going, going back when we’re not, when we’re disconnected, we are, [00:31:00] we are just, Getting away or trying to, trying to distance ourselves from that energy, from God, from we, we kind of like that.

I, that is my belief of the only true choice that we have. We can, we can try to get away from God and our connection with God, or we can walk towards that. That is my definition of free will. But there’s, and then that manifests in different forms. And so I started like I said, with, with emotions, that was the thing that was most difficult for me.

Just learning how to feel and not to suppress was the first step. And because it’s painful, like you said, we have to go through the pain in order to, to come out of it, and I was trying to run away from that and avoiding that for a long, long time. Just feeling a little bit closing up again. Running away and [00:32:00] coming back.

So it, it manifested this, this, this way of healing manifested on a, an external or in the outside world. In, in many moves, I moved to many different countries. I moved within the city there that I was living in. So every move I, I was helping me to let go of some of the pain, start new, start fresh, and then start over again and unlayer uncover these layers of pain, you know, that that suppression in that sense and just peeling, just like peeling away bit by bit and, and coming closer to, to God in that sense and to the spirit realm that we are all connected in coming closer to that bit by bit and at some point, it being a more [00:33:00] natural state than that disconnected state, you know, so that ego state where I’m totally just fulfilling my own needs and I’m, I’m not aware of anyone else, and I’m so slowly getting closer to that.

And actually my last my last time that I had here in Hawaii when just before I come, came back was very service oriented, where I really am so joyful in being able to be of service, you know, and to just see someone on the side of the road and ask them if they need a ride or if somebody is, is hungry to give them some food, whatever it is to be, to be elevated in that sense.

That it’s, that it’s beautiful to serve, you know, Whereas before, before it’s really, it’s all about what can I get out of it? Well, how, where am I? How can I get ahead? How, how can [00:34:00] I make money? How can I fulfill my dreams? You know? So, so that was the, the, these uncovering of the layers where I thought, well, it’s, it might be, it might be nice to have certain situations to experience certain situations, but in the end it’s much more, much more rewarding if I am, if I’m able to make somebody’s life happy or nice, or if I can just help them out a little bit, you know, and not, not having to, not needing to, not being dependent on like the helper syndrome.

I don’t, I don’t need the gratification from that. It’s just when it happens. . I’m really happy that I can be of service. Excellent. Now, we mentioned peeling back the layers. We mentioned digging out with the shovel. Yeah. Let’s dig into that. Let’s be the first [00:35:00] action step, but today is, okay. We know we need to peel back those layers in the onion and deal with it.

How do you do it? Impractical steps. How did Martin do it in practical steps? How did you start digging? Yeah, sorry. No, no. Don’t be sorry. That’s where we’re at. Naturally. It’s just, yeah. Our listeners like, okay, you did it, but how I want to do it too. Yeah. So how can our listeners start that process? Yeah.

And I would say the, the one of the easiest steps that everybody can do, but we seldomly do, even though everybody says it is breathe. You know, actively, consciously breathing, breathe in slowly. Feel what is coming up. Feel how am I feeling right now, you know, that is something that everybody can do and very few people actually do it.

And I feel this would be the first, like, knowing what I know now, [00:36:00] I would love to go back 10 years now and just, and have that, have that nugget with me, you know, if I could bring something over from the future into my, my early twenties. Just being able to breathe and to feel what is very, very gently because we overdo it.

You know, just like stretch. I love using the metaphor for stretching. I don’t know if you ever did any kind of sports where it’s mandatory to stretch in the beginning. And oftentimes I was taught when I was young to really go so far into the pain when you stretch that there is no more give, you cannot go any, any millimeter or inch further, but that’s way too far.

We need to go where it just starts, where the pain starts, where it’s just getting uncomfortable and stay in that, and be in that very, very gently. And the same with emotions. If we go into that feeling of pain [00:37:00] and we just like it is so painful, we can, we automatically flee then it’s way too, way too much.

We just get in touch with. A little bit, you know, a little bit at a time, very gently, and breathing all the way breathing what comes up. That is the, the action step that everybody can take and that costs nothing. And yeah, that would be number one. And then do you do a breathing technique, like four seconds in hold, four seconds out hold?

Like what’s your breathing method? Just breathing. Actually just breathing. There is no, no interval. It’s, it is important to breathe deeply. That is the only thing that I would say. If we breathe shallowly, then we’re, we’re, we’re, that, that is the reason why we don’t feel, because we kind of like stay in that almost very shallow breathing.

But if we just [00:38:00] notice our breath, we will, we will start to deep breathe. In, in, in the, in the right way, in quotation marks, if it’s all is needed, is the attention atten of being attentive with the breath and just being with that. I know, like I said, it sounds super simple, but it is actually like, I couldn’t do it when my teacher told me, just when you, when there’s something that, when you feel in a certain way or if you’re, if you’re feeling sad, just breathe and be with emotion.

I couldn’t do it, you know, even though I knew, so I, I understand that it, it might be an effort, even though it is just such a simple thing, but it is such a, such a transformative tool. I agree completely. I mean, not just people teaching it and not just what you’re saying, but I’ve experienced it firsthand in my life, whether you’re, you know, just [00:39:00] that if you’re physically ill, , you naturally wanna start breathing heavier.

If you’re under stress, you naturally wanna start breathing heavier. But if you control your mind and start that forced breathing, you start getting control of everything else and it levels out. And that sounds like what you’re explaining, so I couldn’t agree more. Breathing is massive, and they’ve done study after study where they’re just monitoring people’s blood pressure and they see it go right down to normal people just breathe.

Mm-hmm. . So, okay, so step one, un you know, shoveling, digging ourselves out of the hole, whether it’s depression or anything else, we’re struggling, peeling back the layers of the onion. Step one is start breathing. What’s step two? Feel? What is like if we start feeling, if we if we start breathing, I’m sorry.

If we start breathing, we connect with the, with the moment, with the current moment, what is right now, and we, we give, we give. Things [00:40:00] space. There is, Kerala would say there is this presence that we enter into. And in that presence, if we, if we have stuff that we try to not see, feel here, there will be something coming up.

You know, w whether that’s joy or sadness, it will be something that will be coming up very likely in form of an emotion. That is, that is step two. Feel, feel, what is, you know, connect with what, what is, what is coming up and being with that. And the, the label three the, the, the step three would be if, if we, if we identified the emotion or whatever is coming up right now.

Then to drop the label. [00:41:00] And that’s something that I just recently learned at a retreat I was attending in Hawaii, whereas, and I’m, I’m going to explain why. First for someone who’s inexperienced with, with feeling, what is, it can be helpful to use a label like anger. I’m angry or I’m sad, or I am frustrated, I’m depressed.

To use that label to at least get a, get a grip on that emotion, right? But then to let go of that label and to just experience that feeling, how does it feel? Because if we hold onto that label, we hold onto the energy. But if we drop the label, we can just be with the energy because most likely the energy will change and shift when, when we’re observing it, when we’re keeping on breathing.

This energy will probably transform. And if we hold on to the [00:42:00] label, let’s say anger, I will hold on to that energy in a certain form. And so the step three would be letting go of any kind of label that we put on the situation, on the feeling, on the thought. So before you go on, let’s do two quick things that I think are I unfortunate?

Yes. Number one, I’m familiar with the what is, and now it’s hugely powerful in my life. When I got physically ill, you know, a lot of people think what if and they don’t even realize they’re doing it. Like, what if this, what if that? What if this? And they worry, worry, worry, worry. About 90% never is gonna happen.

9% of that is like, it’s not gonna be a big deal. And the 1% that might happen and be bad, you’ll still get through it. So talk about the mindset of what is, what does that look like?

Hmm. Easy interview, right? Yeah. It’s, so, it’s, I mean, I love it. It’s just [00:43:00] being, being on the spot, coming up with, with the answers, with these profound answers, or at least my, my answers not the answers, but my answers to your questions. And that’s as if there’s, our listeners know this is about your journey.

Yeah. But how it can help me and them and everybody involved. So we appreciate you being here, and that’s why we wanna know you were able to overcome and achieve these things. So how did you do it? So the first thing is your mindset on what is verse what if? Yeah.

What is, what is, is you mentioned these, the, the mind that keeps racing and the thoughts that keep coming in. . I think the, what is, is the antidote to the what if so, because what is right now is, is relatively easy. You [00:44:00] mentioned also the, the, the 99% of things that we kind of think about. And so we construct, we construct all these scenarios a lot of time because we’re afraid of the unpredictability of the future.

If, if I, like, if I’m putting myself in, in these shoes when I’m excited or kind of like feel that sense of where my mind takes over and where I’m thinking a lot, it’s oftentimes because I’m, I’m not sure of a certain event, what, how it will unfold. And so to look at what is, is bringing all that, all that construction, all the pro projection into the future, into the current moment, which is there’s the candle.

I’m sitting here. It’s okay. I’m in a, in a, in an environment that I can assess and if I have my eyes open, you know, if we’re just staying at the [00:45:00] external level, it’s just like, okay, what is is, there’s just like, everything is like that. And I’m fine at the moment. , I’m not hungry or I’m, I’m, I’m satisfied in, in terms of what my body needs and to just be okay with what is.

But I think the more important question is what is on the internal level, because we oftentimes think we need all these things, but rather, rather than, than all the needs and what ifs and, and all that, all these things, we realize that in the present moment when we, when we look at what is, everything’s already here, everything is there when it need, and I’m, I’m probably, I’m, I’m sure you’re, you’re much more bible firm where you know the Bible much better than I do, but I only know it from the quotations of other people mostly.

But I would say [00:46:00] that when we look at. The the part of where Jesus, where Jesus supplied all the food for all the people, the food that showed up, and the time when the people needed it. So when I connect with what is means, everything will come to me in its right time and its right place. And everything that I need is provided with because I have.

And to be honest, I personally have always had enough. Only in the situation I was seeking more and I think I thought it wasn’t enough. But like so far, even in times when I had just, just a little, it was always enough for me to be okay, to be alive and to be, you know? And, and that is just my personal perspective of if we look at what is, everything is already here.

I don’t have to worry about what, what comes because it will come. Whatever it needs to come, will come. And stopping to kind of like [00:47:00] Eckhart said in one of his talks that we the whole universe, the whole kind of, the whole ev all of existence comes together in this point of time. Right now. All the planets in rotation, the whole universe, the planet, everything, just, and we think we can with our minds work against that in wanting it to be different, you know?

But it is because everything just comes together in this point of time right now. And it’s much easier to accept that and to say, well, this is what is, rather than with our small minds, small in quotation marks to want to be different. Want it to be different. I think that is like to see that futility in.

The lever that the universe has, God has in a sense, and the lever that our, our mind has is so different. And it’s just like accepting that we are trying to, to swim against the flow or [00:48:00] upstream in a really fast current and to understand, well, I can, I can let go. I can just be with that flow and not have to fight against it all the time.

Excellent. So step one, breathing. Yeah. Step two is the, what is step three? Yeah. What’s your step three to moving forward? Yeah. Drop the label, you know, drop if there, if I’m, if I’m coming up with any labels of what is, which will probably happen because I’m just, we, that’s the way we are wired and or we wired ourselves in the past.

And to just let go of any labels and to, to experience the moment just.

Without these mental constructs or labels, you know, in, in, in, in, in the easiest way it is. For example, when I see [00:49:00] something really beautiful for me, most of the time it’s a sunset, sunrise, or a rainbow or something like a something nature phenomenon that is happening short. It’s not happening a long time.

Or you see a comet in the sky at night. I come up with the, with the inner label. That’s beautiful. You know, and by doing that, I’m, I’m already, I’m already kind of like disconnecting from that actual moment through that mantle construct of beauty. And so just drop the labels and be with that moment.

while we are breathing. You know, this is, this is not, not, it’s not ending. It’s not like I’m breathing, I’m feeling what is, and then I’m dropping the label, but I’m not focusing on my breath again. So it’s just that being in this breathing space where I feel what [00:50:00] is, and when I realize that I’m creating a label for what is, and to let it go and focus on the breath, keep breathing in that circular mo mo movement.

Okay. And then how does your, you said your totem animal, your spirit being mm-hmm. , where does that come into play? Are there more steps besides those three? I mean, cuz we want to know the journey you took to find this peace and grace. Yeah. And you talked a lot about a spirit animal. Where did that come in, in this process?

So the, the spirit animal Comes in, in every shamanic journey. So a shamanic journey to really summarize it really quickly is kind of like a meditation where we lay down and there is a a shaman or a facilitator in the room and drumming a drum or rattling a rattle, creating, [00:51:00] creating a space for the people in the room to journey, kind of like in a dream state.

Only that we are aware of our body, we’re still connected with our body, but a part of us is journeying into this, into this non-ordinary reality. And so the totem animal, or the spirit animal is kind of like our, our sidekick in a sense. I, I’m missing, for lack of a better word, it’s, it’s kind of like it is.

beside us. It helps us. It’s just there to support us in any way. It guides us through difficult situations. For example, I would say, because you also ask about the early days. In the early days in a shamanic journey, there were oftentimes things that scared me in that journey, whether it was a person I was afraid of, and I, I, I felt [00:52:00] there was something in that shamanic journey.

A, a feeling that I was afraid of. My totem animal or a spirit animal gave me support to go through that. And I think in your anal analogy the, the, the Holy Spirit or some kind of higher vi, higher being higher force, it helps us muster the courage to go through difficult situations. . That was, was my, my totem animals in the early days.

You know, if I’m really afraid. For example, let’s say hmm, in a shamanic journey, I, I journeyed into my basement in, in the kind of like if you see the metaphor of a house. And we did a journey into the basement of my inner house. And so I was, I was [00:53:00] facing a lot of the things that I had stored away in my subconscious in the basement.

And my totem animal or spirit animal helped me just knowing that it’s there and that I don’t have to be afraid. You know, it was just, and it is all these. Small, small ways where in a journey, knowing that you have your power animal, that’s another word. How, how, how it’s used. You having your power animal by your side so that you have the energy and the courage to go through that and to, to face those demons in a sense.

So where did you, you’re feeling depressed, you’re struggling in life, you’re learning to breathe, you’re learning. What is you’re learning to release. How did you go from that point to the healing even? How did you go from that point to identifying your spirit animal and then how’d you go from that point to healing?[00:54:00]

I, I, I think the healing started in, in the moment where I where I did my first. Seminar. And for me, the healing, my healing journey is connected with a spiritual path. It doesn’t have to be for other people, but for me, the reconnecting with my spirituality, with the, the higher the, the, the, the something that is greater than me. Acknowledging that there is an intelligence or something that is outside of myself in a outside when I start perceiving it and then realizing that it’s all encompassing.

That was the beginning. And it is in the, in the shamanic journey that it started. And the healing is just [00:55:00] by continuing the work. You know, that’s why I said the shovel. , it is not, the shovel is not turning into something else. It was just to, and it was always easy for me because it was something that called me, something that resonated with me, where I just applied the tools that I had learned in the Shamanic Journey seminars.

And it’s, it’s basically a native American way of, that I was taught. And those teachings help me in combination with the shamanic journeys, you know, and, and to, to bring forth all of the teachings is probably very difficult. But in, in a sense, it’s, it’s all about coming, coming to that holistic place where we realize, That everything has its purpose and accepting what is, I’m, I’m so sorry if I [00:56:00] repeat myself.

No, not at all. I mean the, in Romans 8 28, all things happen to good, to those that love God, to those that called according to his purpose. And forgive me if I get a, if the words wrong, I’m just, my mind’s not, I have a hard time memorizing word for word. But basically you’re saying the same thing again, like your experiences as matching the Bible perfectly, that we don’t understand why things happen, but we can work through it and we have the ability to understand it later and see that it really was what’s best for us, even though it seemed horrible and we don’t want to go through it again.

It somehow grew us and will benefit us long term. God will never cause evil, but he may allow things to happen to us that we perceive as bad. , but down the road it’s gonna be for his glory and our good. So that’s really cool to hear. Again, you don’t have to be quoting scripture, but that’s, you’re, you’re basically quoting scripture, right?

Mm-hmm. . So what when you’re on this journey, how [00:57:00] do you recognize what your spiritual animal is? Because like I’ve, you know, people will talk about that even if they’re not spiritual or following a charman path Yeah. Into religion. They’ll be like, oh, my spirit animal is this and they’re just making crap up.

Yeah. But how do you actually know what your real spirit animal is? Yeah. So it is it is a journey a shamanic journey where you where you go into the earth and like okay. Imagine you’re laying on the floor. Everything I say from this point on is, is imagined or is is happening in, in images that come up.

It’s not imagined. It’s images that come up. There’s a difference to me. So is this an exercise we can all do right now? Can you walk us through an exercise or is it way more complex than that? No pressure. Yeah. No, it’s, it’s I don’t think it, it would do just, just it would do justice to, [00:58:00] to the whole thing because you just, it is, it is about that, that finding and, you know, being, I mean, I can just talk and everybody who wants to imagine we can, we can do that.

Absolutely. I mean, It’s, it’s, it’s an interesting, I’ve never done that, but we can do that. I will just pace myself a little bit. I’ll create a context so that everybody knows what’s going on, and then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll walk it through. So imagine you’re laying on the floor and are in a relaxed state in that, in that, or don’t imagine.

Be in a relaxed state. If you want to, you can lay down and close your eyes. Then there will be the shaman who’s drumming the drum or is or is rattling the rattle. And I will just, I will just drum really slightly in the background really, really slightly. Okay. [00:59:00] So and then the assignment is to find an opening in the earth or a hollow tree trunk.

Or a cave, anything that leads down into the earth because you want to find your totem animal and you will find your totem animal in the underworld and don’t get caught by the name. It’s just the world that is in the earth. And so you find your way, walk down a path that you see, and there will be an opening somewhere and you follow follow that until you find that opening and get down into the earth.

And in the underworld, you have the opportunity to call for your totem animal or your spirit animal, and you just [01:00:00] call out and say, spirit animal, please show yourself or. Hey, totem animal, I would love to see you. I would love to meet my totem animal. And you do that with your internal voice. And then there might be an animal that shows up and you get to ask the animal, are you my totem animal?

And the animal answers, maybe yes, maybe no. And no matter what it said, if it said yes or no, you have two questions that you can ask the totem animal. It is, do you have something for me or do you need something from me? And so these questions are the ones that you can ask. And the only thing that is different if it’s not your totem animal, if the animal said, no, I’m not your [01:01:00] totem animal.

You say, thank you, appreciate it, and then it will go, and then you can call out your totem animal again. And then thank the animal that showed itself and asked those questions again. Nice. Yeah. Well, I saw a giant bear, so is that my, oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s my animal. That was what came, saw a cave, walked down the cave, and then like I walked into, Like it was dark.

And then when I got down there, it opened up, like you said, I, I just opened up into like a whole other world, under the world, but it was all like journey of the center of the earth type. Yeah. And then this giant monstrous bear came out . Mm. Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, that’s a really, like if you want to, I can send you some, some info later on the, on the bear, you know, but it’s, the bear is actually the, the [01:02:00] the, the, the, when we, when we begin a shamanic journey, we, we just create a certain sacred space and the bear is the keeper of the space for that dream state, for that transition, like where we just went, that non-ordinary reality, the bear is kind of the guardian of that.

realm. And so it’s a very powerful animal, you know? It is. And I mean, you, you help people to go through that and to heal, you know? So I feel there’s a great, great power in that. But in the end it’s just like, how do I resonate with the animal and what does it tell me? You know? Yeah. So, yeah. That’s interesting, man.

So, okay, so Martin, we got to do some awesome things. Hopefully our listeners are thinking and learning and taking what they can apply. So talk to us about your story and you’re going through this journey. Talk to us about finding that peace and [01:03:00] grace, and then bring us through to today.

Can you give me help with the starting point, like Yeah, absolutely. So you’re going through this journey and you’re finding your totem animal and you’re, yeah. You know, you’re unpeeling the layers of the onion. When do you feel like you found peace and got rid of the depression? Like, because depression can be something we struggle with our whole life, but then there’s that true victory where we can just throw it off and then we continue to heal each day so it doesn’t come back.

It’s like a monkey flick that thing over the cliff and get rid of it, but it’ll try to climb back up. Yeah. So how did you get rid of the monkey of depression and how do you keep it? . Yeah. So did you hit it with the shovel, ? I, I, I don’t know. I don’t think so. No, no, . So to be [01:04:00] really honest, to be really honest it feel, to me depression feels like how I imagine someone who is an alcoholic who recovered really, because it’s never gone completely.

Like I just, I just got back last week from Hawaii and I was really having a hard time, and it’s not about, I feel this path and my journey is not about not feeling, not only being high in a sense, always being in blissful in a blissful state. That’s not where I’m at. I would be lying if I said so. It is more like the recovery rate.

If we look at sports, again, if I’m in training, if I’m in shape, the time it takes my pulse to go from a really high pulse down to the relaxed, regular pulse. Again, if I’m not trained, it takes a long, long time. And if I’m in [01:05:00] training, it goes down two minutes, boom. And I’m kind of like in a relaxed state and I would say my journey has been not being in this depressive state for weeks and weeks and weeks and just feeling like awful all the time.

You know, it is more like, okay, here this, here is this feeling. And it’s not quite gone yet. Maybe it will be, I don’t know. It hasn’t, it hasn’t disintegrated yet. So I just, the way for me was like I, like I mentioned before, Breathing, feeling what is and, and, and, and dropping the label in that sense that I’m not fighting myself.

I’m not trying to get rid of it, because if I try to fight it, it will just get stronger, it will get bigger, you know? So be, be being, being more compassionate with myself. I would say compassion is probably absolutely the number four, , [01:06:00] number four step in that process where if we feel compassion for ourselves and others we will, we will we will get out of our own way a lot faster.

Awesome. Well then where are you today, Martin? Where are you headed? You just helped us for about an hour. How can we help you get to your next Kohler destination? Yeah, so I am I’m starting Emotional wellbeing Mastermind group next year. That is something that I’m really looking forward to, especially, and the mastermind group is dedicated for males 30 to 50 who are in leadership positions and also in have families, you know, who are in that, in that spot that I was in, where I’m, I’m kind of like overwhelmed with all these things and I don’t know really how to emote and how to come into that harmonious state in myself with my family [01:07:00] and my colleagues.

So that is something that I’m, that I’m building right now, which I’m really looking forward to. And other than that, in the long run, I I am creating a sanctuary or a refuge in in Hawaii. That is something that I’m really looking forward to as well. But it’s just a big project, you know, it’s a project of my life, so to say.

And but support. I would say anyone who, who resonates with a shaman shamanistic kind of things that I said today and who is intent on working with their emotions and kind of like creating a more peaceful and graceful life, I would say that is probably a good, a good place to be. And if you need some help, come to me.

I’d love to work with you. Other than that, I’d just love to serve, you know, whatever I can do. Excellent. And what’s the [01:08:00] best way? We’ll put links in the show notes. So if someone’s listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or through YouTube, they can just click and go, but what’s the best way to reach you?

Yeah, the best way is probably my website, which is called Light trails.co. And from there I have all, all the links. I’m, I’m, I’m doing my best to be present in social media, but I’m, I’m n not at the time, but I will be offering meditations soon, like just live, install, live in Instagram lives and LinkedIn lives where I do just regular meditation.

So if you, if you keep an eye out for Light Trails co you’ll probably find me and the meditations and the Mastermind. So those are other things that are up and coming. Awesome, Martin, well, I’ve had a great experience today. I hope you did as well, and our listeners did, and I [01:09:00] think we all can learn and grow from each other.

But thank you for sharing your story. Oh, no problem. Between your birth and today, is there anything we missed in your life journey that’s significant that you feel, you know, you want to share that’ll help people? Or is there anything like God just lay on your heart like, Hey, before you go say this, anything else we need before you wrap up this episode?

No. The, the only words that came up were be kind, you know, just because if, if we’re kind to others, we are kind to ourselves. It feels good. We make this planet such a, such a, such a more loving place if, if we are treating each other kindly. You know, even if we, if we just disagree. [01:10:00] with someone’s views or something that people like.

I mean, there’s so many things where we think we disagree right now in the world. Like there’s so much, so much chaos in a sense. And I, I would say just showing kindness to the person next to us, to our brothers and sisters. We’re all, like you said, you said it perfectly. We’re all, all from the human race who are all the children of God.

So just being kindly to each other. Ramdas one of my favorite spiritual teachers that we’re all just bringing each other home, you know? So I love that. Just being kind to each other. Well, thank you so much Martin, and I think that’s great closing advice cuz we don’t all all have to agree, we don’t all have to even like, like each other.

Sometimes people just don’t like each. You just don’t, you know what personality, a, B, C, whatever they are, they don’t get along. But you can still respect each other. You can still be kind to each other. You, you don’t have to be [01:11:00] best friends and hang out on Christmas dinner, but you can be loving and respect each other and kind and be there when each other needs help.

And some of, I don’t know about you, but to this day, some of my best friends were people I clash with to the point of fistfights. Mm-hmm. And now to this day mm-hmm. I’m 45. They’re still my best friends. Yeah. So I think being kind and being honest and real, you’re spot on, brother. So thank you for your wisdom and time, Martin.

Thank you. All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, please if you have benefited from this, let us know, put comments in, whether it’s YouTube or on the website or in apple Podcasts or Spotify or Chartable. Let Martin know he’s been able to help you. If you have questions, click on the links, continue the conversation with Martin.

If you know someone this May, this can help, share it with them. If you can leave us a five star review because you really love this show in the episode, please do [01:12:00] so. If you can’t send me an email and tell me why. Tell me to wear a mask, am I that ugly? I need to block it. Whatever I can do to make the show better and more powerful, let us know so we can help you grow and glorify God.

So I’m David Pasqualone. This was our friend Martin, and we only want the best for you. But like our slogan says, Martin can bring you the best content in the world, but you can’t just listen. You gotta do it. You gotta repeat it each day so you can have a great life in this world, an attorney to come. So again, Martin, thanks for being here, brother.

I appreciate you and wish you only the best my friend, ladies and gentlemen, have a great day and we’ll see you in the next episode. Ciao.

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