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“Comparison is the thief of joy.” – Josh Kramer


Did you ever have a time in your life where everything on the outside seemed superb, ideal, and perfect, but on the inside you were depressed, struggling, and out of control?

This week we have a man who grew up in an idyllic situation. He had a mom and dad who were wonderful, a great sister, and a childhood that would be what we would consider a Leave it to Beaver home. As he grew older though he started noticing he was having some internal struggles with depression and mental illness. Then, as he entered his late twenties and early thirties, the issues really came to a head.

What happens next? COVID hits and he has to make a real decision: give up and take meds while he watches himself deteriorate, or face in and take massive action. Thankfully he not only chose to take action, but he developed a workbook that not only helped him, but can help us too. Ladies and Gentlemen, get your pens and paper ready for this remarkable episode of the podcast, the Josh Kramer story!



Joshua Kramer is the creator of The Unicorn in You, a personal growth and development perspective that emphasizes five key principles as the foundation for peace and joy. He is the Managing Partner of Kramer Chandler, a Founding Partner of Real Connex, and an active member of YPO. When not pursuing his passion for traveling, he can be found walking around town with his beloved Havanese, Buddy.





Guest Contact Info:

  • Website: https://TheUnicornInYou.com

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Resources Mentioned: 




US Congress Paige, 102nd Congress, Library of Congress, politics, Tom Foley, US Speaker of the House, mental health, mental illness, depression, real estate development, social anxiety, introversion, worry, real estate, writing, foundation, light, self help books, wisdom, rumination, over thinking, divorce, COVID, stillness, kindness, values, virtue, gratitude, humility, acceptance, slowing our minds, unicorn



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While we are very thankful for all of our guests, please understand that we do not necessarily hold, or endorse the same beliefs, views, and positions that they may have. We respectfully agree to disagree in some areas and thank God for the blessing and privilege of free will.

Full Episode Transcript

Josh Kramer | Ending Excessive Rumination and Worry, Slowing Our Minds, & Becoming Whole

Do you ever have a time in your life where everything on the outside was superb, ideal and perfect buddy on the inside, you’re depressed and struggling and out of control all this and more on this week’s episode of the remarkable people podcast, the Josh Kramer story.

Hello friends. Welcome to this week’s episode. The remarkable people podcast this week, we have a man who grew up in an idyllic home. He had a mom and dad who were wonderful, a sister, a childhood that. Would be what we would consider the, leave it to [00:01:00] beaver normal, wonderful life. Yet, as he grew older, he started noticing he was having some internal struggles with depression and mental illness.

And then as he got into his late twenties and early thirties, it really came to a head. He had a face in, and then when COVID hit, he decided to take massive action. Put it all together. So not only he can help himself with a workbook type format each day, but he can help us too. So get your pens and paper.

Get ready for this remarkable episode of the podcast, the Josh Kramer story.

Copy of Part 4 INTERVIEW Josh Kramer Ending Excessive Rumination and Worry Slowing Our Minds and Becoming Whole: Hey, Josh, how are you today? How are you Dave break to finally be with you? I know I can’t wait for this episode. I just told our audience a little bit about you. So they’re like me. They just want to jump in. So at this time, let’s go right through your life. The highs, the [00:02:00] lows, the really good, the really bad everything in between.

We’ll start at your birth cuz you know where we’re born and how we’re raised forms. The men we are today. So go back and bring forward. Anything that you think is significant in your journey. And we’re gonna talk about it, ask questions and at the end, we’re gonna transition into, well, you just helped us for an hour.

Where are you today, Josh? And where are you going? So hopefully we, as an audience can help you. Sound good. I love it. That sounds great. Can’t wait to get into it with you and have a great conversation. All right, man, sir. Where were you born? Were you born in Zimbabwe? Iceland. Were you born in New Jersey?

Where are you from? I’m from Patterson, New Jersey and very proud Paterson and back, gosh, way back when it was known as the silk city. But it’s changed for many, many years and I was born there 47 years. And it’s special to be because my family spent generations there. Fourth generation, my family business, which [00:03:00] was a real estate lumber yard.

But going back to my early days, I was born in Northern New Jersey. I grew up here. And I had a very positive, happy, safe childhood, I would say very gratefully that I had all the breaks. I think that I just grew up in a very warm, loving family. I had a big family, had a lot of cousins. I’m the youngest of two children.

I had two very loving parents had us relatively young, but my older sister and I just had a very warm, loving childhood. And I think as I reflect on my childhood, I, I was a shy kid. I certainly could be extroverted. I had tendencies to be social, but I think I was more comfortable. Being to myself a little bit.

I loved reading. I loved learning. And at the same time, I also loved playing sports and being outside. So for so much of my early life, I just felt very safe very supported. And I think that’s what led me to feel comfortable, you know, getting out of my [00:04:00] comfort zone a little bit. As I got into high school later on, and then later into univers.

And that’s great because what’s sad is what we quote unquote, call normal childhood is the exception today. It seems right. Everybody seems dysfunctional. So you had that privilege to be raised. You said your mom, your dad, and your, your sister and then community with family and friends. Right. So when you saw that and you saw your parents.

Did that, and we’re gonna get there help you establish what a healthy relationship is for the future. No question. And, and, you know, you, you hit the right word. I was, I was very privileged. I still am privileged. I felt, I always used the word. I was fortunate. I think in my mind, I knew that I was, and at the same time it’s all we know.

So what do we have as a reference point? But at the same time, I knew that there was a sense of stability specifically with my parents. And as, as to your point, that was [00:05:00] the example. It’s certainly what I had as a point of comparison later on, as I got into relationships and I saw friends and saw what their family life was like, but it was my parents that really kind of set the tone.

They were supportive, they were loving they were also present. They were there and that in and of itself made such a big difference in my C. Yeah, it does. It does. So now you have a great childhood, anything between birth and when you go to university that you want to discuss, or is it all pretty much the status quo up to this point, building a strong future leader.

Probably the best experience I had in my life to this date happened during this time I was 16 years old and I was selected to be a page in the United States Congress. It was something that I had wanted to do for a long time, had a family friend that did it probably a few years ahead of me. And when I learned that it was possible to do it, I made it a goal of mine.

And so I applied to my [00:06:00] local Congressman. I applied to the senators of New Jersey at the time with bill Bradley and Frank Berg. And I was ultimately nominated by a long time Congressman named Bob bro from the eighth district. I found out 10 days before the program started, this was second semester, junior year.

So very formative year of an important year. And I found out just after new year’s in January, that I was to be down there in 10 days. And I, along with 65, other kids from around the country were going to work in the hundred second Congress. And we would live in a office building slash dorm together. We would go to school in the library of Congress from 6 45 in the morning to 10:00 AM.

And the rest of the day we’d work on the house floor. If you watch Seaspan and you see what’s goes on there our second day there, we were at the state of the union for George Bush senior. And it was one of those formative experiences that almost. Transcended so much of what I saw could be possible in life.

You know, this sense of optimism for sure. Perhaps some [00:07:00] idealism, but it was the exposure to people from around the country in socio, not socioeconomic sort of distinguishers then from what I came from ethnicity. and it really shaped me probably to this day. I’m gonna be celebrating my 30th reunion this fall.

And it was probably the greatest experience I’ve had to this date. It was the most special six months. Yeah. That’s something that very few individuals get to do. What was your view going into. And after experiencing that back and I’m taking, it was the late eighties, early nineties, correct? 1992, right?

Yeah. So what was your expectation going in and what did you walk away learning? Cause right now, I believe personally that there are great politicians out there. But I also know that there’s some terrible politicians out there and [00:08:00] it seems like the imbalance is more towards the bad side right now. So to give people hope for American politics, what did you experience?

Good, bad, ugly. What did you see? I think that I went in with a real sense of idealism and perhaps, you know, that went away fairly quickly, but at the same time, I didn’t leave there jaded in any way. In fact, I left there wanting to be a part of it to this day. I still think about it in those terms, because I saw so much good.

And to your question, The best example I got and I recommend everyone look him up and, and learn about him. Was the speaker at the time, his name was Tom Foley. He was from Spokane Washington, and he was just this old guard gentleman. And he had respect from both sides. He was a Democrat, but he was a believer in working with everyone.

And I would say he was more moderate. He was pragmatic. He was practical. [00:09:00] He was realistic. And there is a wonderful clip. If anyone Googles, they see that two years after I left, he lost his primary. He was the speaker of the house and he lost his primary election in Washington state. And. As he knew he was departing Congress.

He brought up the minority leader. The time was Republican named Bob Michael from, from Illinois. He brought him up and gave him the gave and said, you haven’t had a chance to be here and sit in this chair. And I want to give you this opportunity. And they got a standing ovation. Tom Foley PS died got several years ago, Bob Michael wrote a beautiful piece and talked about that moment.

And that’s something that I always took from me. I wasn’t there at that time, but working for speaker Foley, just letting me leave. There was decency and goodness in people that were there for the right reasons. Excellent. So now you were. Young you’re in college. Where does your journey go from there? So I [00:10:00] had an opportunity to go some, to some very good schools and I ended up choosing one and it was right back in Washington, DC.

And it was because I was a page I wanted to be back in that city. I felt like I wanted to pursue a path in that area, in that arena. And I ended up not doing so, but coming back to Washington, DC, I think really. Changed me as I look back in many ways. And this is where I think it may be interesting for your listeners and for your audience, as well as how I came to write my book, because it was during this time on my life.

When I was around 19 years old, that I started to first struggle and suffer with my mental health. It was something that I did not have much experience with. I didn’t really know what it was. I just thought I was down. But it was so much deeper than that. And because of that, I was embarrassed by it.

I didn’t talk to anyone about it and it ended up Manifesting in something much deeper. That probably left me for the next 15 to 20 years in a very dark place at times. [00:11:00] And this was the point in my life that I look back on is where things really change for me. And I struggled to address some of these challenges and where I first started reading these self-help books and fast forward to today, what prompted me to write an unself book because of that time in my life.

Yes. And for those of you listening every nation around the world, Has a different culture. Even within nations, we have subcultures. And what Josh is talking about during the nineties mental health, there was definitely a stigma. It was not as accepted as today and correct me if I’m wrong. But for men don’t most mental health issues start showing up between 18 and 25.

Exactly the age you were. I think you’re right. And you certainly, we develop a little bit later. We mature a little later, emotionally in your year spot on. This was in the early mid nineties, not something that you really would talk about. We really didn’t use the internet, email or cell phones for [00:12:00] that matter.

Yeah, no, I remember that. I remember, you know, we all need help and there’s different severities of it. And I just remember if you got caught going to a counselor, they call it a shrink or a psychologist, right? Psychiatrist. It’s like, dude, what the hell is wrong with you? You know, like you were just treated like an outcast, so, okay.

So now you’re starting to see and feel things in your life that aren’t right. You’re I, I don’t wanna use the term depressed, but it sounds like that. And then. It kind of spirals. So where does life go from there for you? I was depressed and I didn’t know it. I had a reprieve and probably a really special again, six month period.

Now, junior year in college, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to a program. In London and I studied abroad there and that helped shape me, my worldview a little bit. It rounded me, it, it gave me a curiosity for travel. And when I came back, I was really ready to graduate, which I did. And I embarked on my career now probably 25 years ago in the real estate industry.

And [00:13:00] I lived in New York city before relocating to south Florida. I lived there for a number of years, and I think that that sadness and depression was always. To me, like hanging over me. That’s the best way I could describe it. I was almost waiting for it. And certainly it’s because I didn’t really know how to address it.

And I probably didn’t prop I didn’t have the emotional resources to really to look deeper at it. Sometimes picking at it, made it worse and not addressing it was really ignoring that it existed. So, this is when I embarked now on, you know, a career that was not how I define myself at all, but by profession, I’ve been in the real estate business for 25 plus years.

Now, when you say that you had these issues going on in the background, did anybody know that you were struggling with it or did you keep it really an inner battle? Really kept it an inner battle. And I remember the handful of times when it was apparent probably to my parents, that I had [00:14:00] some struggles or wasn’t myself.

It was kind of that. And I say this levelly from them. It was kind of cheer up, you know, go outside. Don’t worry about it. You’re, you’re thinking too much. You’re worrying too much when they would see the books that I would buy and wondering, why are you, why are you buying a book on happiness and not really quite getting that there was something deeper that was persisting, but really in many ways, festering.

And I think that I prolong my battle. For too long. And at the same time, it’s something that if anyone has dealt with, they know that it doesn’t feel like you ever really conquer it. And it’s, it’s, it’s a very, it’s a very difficult thing to talk about. Let alone to overcome. Yeah. And when did you start getting okay.

I acknowledge something’s not right. I’m doing my best, but it’s just not working at what age and point in your life did you say. [00:15:00] I need to take action. Something needs to change. Yeah. My early thirties, I moved back to New York city and that’s when I saw sought some help. And whether it’s connected or not, probably the next four years became really, really difficult for me.

Probably the peak of my depression and sadness. It was the type of thing where I lived in Manhattan at times I couldn’t leave my apartment. I really struggled just to feel like I could. Be out in the world. Again, I think coming back to this childhood sense of introversion with me, I was more shy and I would take more of effort and struggle to push myself to go out.

I enjoyed travel. That’s what kind of gave me some oxygen and air. And I would go do a lot of trips by myself, but probably around my mid thirties. This challenge really peaked to a point where I was scared. And I really didn’t know how to overcome it. And I think that gradually I got a, [00:16:00] almost a breath of air and tried to take some of the weight off my shoulders just a little bit because it was overpowering and something that I knew was not going to serve me well.

The worrying at least for the long. So what were the steps now between again? So we went from your birth to college. Yeah. Then we went from college to you’re about 30 you’re in New York. You’re doing real estate and it was it real estate in the sense of sales. Or was it development? What was, what were you doing specifically in real estate?

So I’ve been in probably four or five different parts of the industry and not to go too deep into them, but I was on the property management side. Then I was on the advisory side. Then I worked in, in the brokerage base down in south Florida. Coming back up to New York city. I had an investment business.

I have to this day. And most recently I have a real estate technology platform that I’ve relaunched [00:17:00] with a, with a couple of partners. So have touched all different parts of it. And it’s never something that I really felt a deep connection to or passion for. I knew the industry I’m fourth generation in our family business, but I always kind of, you know, found my own path and did my own thing in there.

And so. Writing was something that was always more of an interest and passion to, to, to me. And I think this is when I started to probably think a little deeper about how I could overcome my challenges and also do things that I enjoyed. And one of those things was writing. And so thinking about that, it would probably come to be, oh gosh, several years later, and really at the onset of COVID where I said.

I need a book. I need something to lean on because I feel like this is going to be a very confusing, very anxious time. And this is when I started to think about these ideas of having a foundation that would make me feel solid because what I really wanted was to feel light. And I felt [00:18:00] like first I needed that strong basis.

Interesting words used too foundation light, you know, all of us need that firm foundation and we want that light, that pureness that peace. So I don’t wanna jump ahead, but I did when you said that it just triggered. So now you’re not only digging into yourself, but you’re also seeking help. What were some of the things that really helped you, Josh?

What are the things that our listeners can say? Yeah, I struggle with that too. I’m hearing ’em and I got the same scenario or similar. What are the things that have helped you that you can suggest to our audience? No. I read a book a few years ago and, and as I alluded to, I, I loved reading self-help books in many ways.

That felt like a lifeline. There was maybe some nugget I could extract and use for a short time. But what I really struggled with was having [00:19:00] these processes that didn’t feel natural or very organic. And I couldn’t really use them instinctively, you know, when I had to break things down too much, it was too much of a, of a process.

I read a book called 30 lessons for living. And it was written by a sociologist from Cornell named Carl polymer. And basically he interviewed what he thought were the experts and who were the experts in our country. They were the elder elder Americans who basically had the experience and they were asked the questions, looking back on life.

What do you know for sure? What would you suggest to your younger self and to people were that were, you know you know, younger than you right now. He broke down many different pieces of, of wisdom and advice. And I think that word wisdom gets too often, not, not used enough. And the number one regret they had at the end, their lives was that they wish they hadn’t worried as much.

And it sounds like such a simple thing, [00:20:00] but to me, it was a moment that triggered a sense of, wow, can I project forward and think back, think ahead to myself later on in life, hopefully, and thinking back on all those years and what I did with my time. And I was able to finally intellectually and also kind of deep down feel this sense.

That really would not serve me in any way. If it was something that I couldn’t control, there was no use worrying about it. And if it was something that I could control, there was also no use worrying about it. So that sense of worry may have been the first thing that helped me kind of trigger and lift almost this worry, this burden that I was carrying on my shoulders, there was no reason to carry this weight.

And so that sense of worrying. Especially coming from credible folks who said looking back, that’s the one thing they didn’t wish they didn’t do as much. That helped me. Definitely. So, yeah. And I’ve heard a lot of people say that, and I know in my own life, 90 plus percent of the things we worry about never happen, never happen, but [00:21:00] we spend sometimes 90% of our day worrying in 10% enjoying.

So it’s totally backwards. So I think that’s great advice. Yeah. So. Taken, what are some steps? Let’s do sub steps in of how do you not worry? Like, something’s worry. Burdening, you worrying you it’s on your mind. How do you just accept it and let it go ignore it? What, what have you found that works? I’m try.

I try to simplify so much in my life. It’s just how I’m able to probably process it. So I would say if there’s one thing to do is that I would, and, and granted ruminations were always my Achilles heel. They, they, they crushed me. They created so much more trouble in my life, but in this instance, if I were to take a rumination and say, what am I worrying about?

And now I would play out the worst case scenario. And when I would do that, I would come to terms with what was really bothering me, what was really worrying me, because I can say that I’m worried [00:22:00] about X, Y, Z, but what’s really underneath that. So what I would do is I would take it a little bit further and play out the worst case scenario in there.

And usually. More often than not the worst case scenario was really not that bad. Or it was something that’s saying, okay, if that’s really what’s happening and that’s why I’m worrying, then maybe I need to dial it down a little bit and pull back and understand that this is not worth dedicating anymore.

Emotional energy to, and truly more, like you said our time too. Yeah. You just remind me of, do you ever read Dale? Carnegie’s how to stop wearing and start living. Years ago. I have. Yeah. Yeah. He talks about that. How you take the worst case scenario than everything else is gravy and you, you try to compartmentalize, I didn’t say that word, right.

Sorry about that. And you, you just basically work from the worst and then everything’s better. That’s right. Excellent. So, okay. So what were some other things during this time period, cuz I mean, [00:23:00] and first, you know, you’re in your thirties. You’re in the family business. You said family business, creating my own structure within it.

So developing my own business, trying to sort of carve out my own path, trying to find my way and understanding that, you know, we look back and for me at that time, you, you, you look at where some of your friends are. Unfortunately, I didn’t know this quote at the time, but this idea that comparison is the thief of joy.

That’s something that I did not know at the time. And would’ve been really, really helpful because I am now comparing to where they are in their lives and they’ve had families and maybe they’re ahead in, in certain parts of their career or what at least what I perceived to be. And that’s part of it too, is that our perceptions and our imaginations for not for a good purpose, can, you know, be a great detriment to us.

So all this is going on. And did you have family like your per did you get married, have kids, anything [00:24:00] during your thirties or was that on at this point? I was married in my late twenties, unfortunately divorced in my early thirties. So I did not have children at the time. I don’t have children yet, and I was single overcoming a divorce that I think.

I can’t imagine what it’s like to have a divorce with children. , but I do know that without it, it’s still really a, a horrible thing. Absolutely. Incredibly painful. Not how God intended it. So, yeah. So you’re a struggle with depression and now you’re getting into deep waters that no human, no matter how, unless you’re a narcissist or a sociopath, divorce hurts, it hurts.

You’re Absolutly right. It’s a death. When people say it doesn’t, they’re, they’re literally a narcissist or a sociopath or they’re in complete denial. There’s no other options. [00:25:00] Then when people say that divorce doesn’t hurt children, children are tough. They bounce back. You’re ignorant idiot. It leaves deep wounds that you don’t see on the surface that come.

Future in life. And I, myself just went through a horrible divorce after fighting for years for the marriage and family. Hmm. So. Whether you’re listening to this podcast, whether you’re listening to Josh, for those of us, with the struggle with mental illness or depression, now you add divorce to it that gets even a healthy, balanced, emotional, human sad.

So when you got divorced, I’m taking it that really added fuel to the fire for you. Is that what made you seek help in your thirties? I think so. I, if I were to look back and, and see where a trigger, where some of these events were, no question. And I think that for me, you know, oftentimes being honest with myself certainly was more of a [00:26:00] struggle as a younger.

Person who maybe can rationalize or justify it in our minds. And it’s just a question of having that type of emotional maturity that emotional intelligence even. And so I think that look the. It certainly makes you stronger, but at the same time, it can really debilitate in its own way. And you know, you know, and, and anyone who’s been through it knows it just like anyone who’s suffered with sadness and depression knows that it’s the type of thing that no one can tell you to cheer up and just go outside.

And, and I think that for me, more than anything else connected to both the idea of getting outta my head was going to be the first step towards really, really finding a life. Then let’s start. Let’s go there now getting out of your head. I personally have that prom, I think, and think, and think in Jersey the movie more of the end, I think it’s the end game Avengers.

Did you ever watch that? Oh, I know the movie, but [00:27:00] not, not that well. Yeah. Okay. Well, there’s a scene with Dr. Strange, and he goes into his little, like, he can see the future and he looks through the, the 14 million alternatives to try to find the solution that works. And I think sometimes that’s how our minds work.

We’re like, and we just keep spinning until we find the solution that works. Mm-hmm and sometimes there’s there’s. Not a good solution because of the baggage we carry with us. And that, that life has just dealt us. That’s right. So it further spins people like you and I, and our listeners who overthink. I think you, you said ruminate, you ruminate.

Yeah. You just keep repeating it over and over again. So how did you, what tips do you have for us to break free, to, to stop ruminating? Cuz really we’re ruining. We are, we are, and you know what? I can absolutely relate to what you’re talking about, how our minds just keep going. We allow them to keep going and we don’t stop them.

We don’t know how to [00:28:00] stop them. And this is probably a perfect segue into my project that helped me and really why I wrote it was to help me, but it was the first step. And I didn’t know it at the time. And so I’ll share a very quick story. Probably a handful of months before COVID I was at a corporate event in New York city.

The guest was Ryan holiday to talk about his book. Stillness is the. And I didn’t know his work, but I was seated at his table and he asked the whole table in your life, what do you know to be true? What do you know for sure? What matters to you most? What’s your north star and without thinking of anything?

I just said to him, I think for me that kindness is everything. And I talked a little bit about how I think that that’s kind of, you know, at the core of who I wanna be, who I try to be, but also I think that. It was the first prompt. And first idea that I had that doing something outside of [00:29:00] myself could end up being the best thing for myself.

And so I set that aside and it was later on a few months later when I talked about how looking for that book loading for, for some sort of process to help me get through this now, very strange time that started in March of 2020. It was that idea of kindness would be the first. Clue, because now I’m not thinking about myself.

And what I ultimately said to myself was, what else, what else besides kindness, what other principles? And that’s what led to this idea of the foundation and all of the principles have to do with selflessness and why selflessness, because we get out of our head and in many ways it’s the most self-serving thing we can do ironically, but it’s also there.

There’s good in it. And how do you recommend starting that? Like, if you, if our listeners was like, okay, I don’t wanna start, what do I do? Mm-hmm where are some steps to start this process of [00:30:00] selflessness to stop ruminating and to just start experiencing the joy and peace and kindness. So the first thing I suggest is this, I begin with kindness.

So I would ask yourself this question as well in your life. What do you know to be true? What’s your north star. What’s important to you. Maybe someone will answer honesty is everything to me. Or maybe someone says in my life, it’s all about gratitude. And I promise you that whatever principle or value or virtue that you come up with, you’re going to be able to identify a piece of selflessness in there.

The point of this idea of selflessness is that it stops what you and I struggle with that ruminating, keeping our heads moving, you know, I’ll tell you very quickly. And so people can kind of, you know, catch up here. When I talk about these five principles, I’m talking about kindness, gratitude, integrity, humility, and acceptance.

All of them have to do with getting out of our heads [00:31:00] and, and, and towards selflessness. And I promise you that the first answer that you give will prompt maybe your own foundation for being your own sense of getting outta your own head. So the first thing I would say is what’s that first. And the second one is what would be your foundation.

And I think it’s a very helpful exercise. That’s not for its own sake. It actually has real value.

Yes. In the the stillness. I keep thinking what you’re saying, parallels with the Bible in so many places, but, you know, God says be still, I know that I’m God, and it’s just slowing that rumination, just trusting him being on that firm foundation. And having that peace and joy, but you’re taking in a way that’s everyday practical that you experienced to put that in motion.

Like that is the absolute truth, but now you’re showing us how to take the steps to make it real. Yeah. So when you were starting this journey, you [00:32:00] said you started with kindness. Did you reflect on kindness or did you apply kindness or both? I think both. And by the way, I want to pick on one word you said in there that’s so helpful to me and I’m glad you said.

And your application of it was the idea of slowing our minds. Mm-hmm . And as I started this year, I think it was, yeah, the 20, 22, the years are kind of blending together. But beginning this year I had kind of what were some of my intentions and the first one was to slow down. I think it was to slow down how I drove, how I walked, how I spoke.

How I went about my day with my tasks and that in many ways has helped me to slow down my thinking as well, and has slowed down those ruminations and to the point where I can just be, and I can be still. And in many ways, this goes now to your, your question of, you know, how do I start with kindness? The idea was [00:33:00] emphasized by.

Sort of breakthrough. I had that being rather than doing, and I think that with kindness, it was a idea of being kind. I knew intellectually that kindness could be the kindest thing I did for myself from a very, almost selfish way that it would, it could give me pleasure. It could give me a helper’s high it could release dopamine, but at the same time, I knew that kindness, those benefits would again, not just be for their own.

So to your point, how does one start with that? I believe it’s really two key ways. One we need to let go of judgements. And I think that is so critical when it comes to kindness, because what it does is that it gives people the benefit of the doubt and almost it, it kick starts this sense of compassion.

I believe that compassion driven kindness is so important for slowing our minds down for being lighter and ultimately being more solid. And so letting go of [00:34:00] judgements, how do we do that? We use our imagination. And oftentimes we use our imagination for not a greater purpose. We can make judgements of people.

And that’s exactly the point. Let’s say we’re having an interaction with someone and we’re assuming that they’re being short with us or just, you know, being a little bit more difficult. Maybe we can switch places with them in our minds. Maybe we can use that sense of imagination and say, maybe they’re going through something right now and play it out a little bit.

Just like we play out that worst case scenario with the worrying. Maybe we play out that exchange with someone at the supermarket who maybe has been short with us, maybe something’s going on in their home life. And by using our compassion driven kindness and letting go of our judgements about them.

Maybe that’s something that we can, you know, use our imagination for a more positive benefit. Yes, absolutely. And now how long you brought us up to [00:35:00] the COVID, which hit a couple years ago and you’re developing it during this. You’re taking the 45 years of experience rolling into what you’ve seen work and not work.

And you’re developing this book. So before we move forward into today and where you’re going, Is there anything we missed in your journey, Josh, that you want to share with our audience or talk about, or that’s significant. So if someone’s looking to end the excessive rumination, if they’re looking to slow their mind, if they’re looking to experience that joy and, and peace, what advice do you have for them?

I’ll share one other thing that, you know, I reflect on sometimes and it’s helpful. I like to look more forward than backwards, but I believe we have to look back to learn mm-hmm . And I think back to that time that I was sharing where I had a peak of real sadness and depression and. Not [00:36:00] coincidentally. I had probably my first serious physical ailment and it’s something that persisted probably for two years, it was a stomach ailment that I remember going to see my doctor and they were asking what else was going on.

And I told them that I was having some struggles and they said, you have one body. And it’s not surprising that now you’re having. Challenges elsewhere. And I remember for the better part of two years, I didn’t feel like I could eat anything. I lost a lot of weight. I certainly couldn’t go outside. I couldn’t function.

And those two things led me to say to myself, sometimes out loud, what did you do to yourself? What have I done here? And it was really through this sense of worrying and through not getting outta my own head and not slowing down in my. And I don’t ever want to make light of people who have severe mental [00:37:00] health struggles.

I watched an interview today from Ashley Jud and she talked about her mother who recently took her own life. And people didn’t know much about Ima Jud’s story, but hearing. Her talk about it. And especially in the anguish, it just crushed me. It brought me back to that feeling. And fortunately, I never got to that point, but just listening to her really reminded me.

Of the struggles of so many, and that I was fortunate enough to look back and at least have a moment where I saw myself, my physical health failing and saying, what have I done to myself? And that really always stayed with me. And I think back to that, because I believe more than anything, more than kindness, more than our family, and even more than time, which is our greatest commodity that if you have your health, you have your wealth, that’s it.

I think that’s well said very well said. So where [00:38:00] is Josh today and where are you headed? My friend, you just shared with us some great knowledge and truths and things. We can start applying to our lives, but where are you? Where are you headed? I, the greatest compliment I give to someone is when I say you really seem so whole, and I think that’s such a great word.

And it’s something that I aspire to to get to. I feel more whole than I ever have. And much of it is because I’m making a daily practice of an UN self-help approach, which is what my book really aspires to be this the unicorn in. A path to piece and joy. It’s not the only path I believe anything that can be helpful should be used.

But it’s this idea of not feeling like such a process and also taking the emphasis off of self. So where I’m at today, I am working on the values and principles that form the foundation, my foundation for being kindness. Gratitude, which I believe is the easiest one to get started with integrity, which I think is very, very [00:39:00] important.

You either have it or you don’t that’s it, there’s no gray area. In fact, it removes the gray area and makes our decision making so much easier. Humility, I think is the most underappreciated principle understanding our significance, but really our insignificance in this world. And reducing the size and scope of our importance.

And lastly, acceptance that there’s something that your audience could really grasp onto. It’s this idea of accepting the way that things are and not regretting how they’re not. And maybe going back to your earlier question, acceptance is the section of this book. That’s really acted as the anchor. For me, it was this idea that I was gonna root myself in reality.

rather than spending my time regretting how things and wishing I had done things differently, but acknowledging the truth. And that’s what acceptance is. Excellent, my friend. Excellent. So if someone wants to get a reach, get, if someone wants to get in touch with you or reach you, what’s the best way for them to contact you Josh.

Best way to do it is come check [00:40:00] me out@joshkramer.com or if you wanna learn more about the book, go to the unicorn in you.com or on Instagram at the unicorn in you. Awesome. And we’ll put links in the show notes to all of that. And also if they wanna reach you and grab the book, I’ll put a link to the book on Amazon or your website, whatever you prefer for them, just click order and go.

That’s great. And I love connecting with people. I love hearing their feedback, their thoughts. I love hearing what their principles are. Oh yeah. And if you’re listening. Josh me pretty much everybody behind the mic. We don’t get to see you. You see us, you hear us, but we don’t get to see you. So the more you write and reach out, it makes a world of difference and encouragement.

Am I, am I right? Josh? Am I alive? You’re spot on. And I think that’s what in many ways gives us. Gives us deeper fuel and makes it so much more meaningful. It’s that a connection with people because we all are in this together and we all feel so much of the same things. And by sharing and hearing from everyone, it makes it all worthwhile.

Yeah. A hundred [00:41:00] percent. And we love you. We’re here cuz we love God. We love you. We’re trying to help do our part. You’re doing your part. But sometimes you know, you’ll see content and there’s hours of preparation. Behind that content. So while we get weary, your comments Fu us not in pride or ego, but just in motivation that it’s worth keep going.

So reach out to Josh. And if you have any questions, you know, contact us, check out the show notes. But other than that, Josh, I’ve had a great time with you today. Is there anything we missed in your story? Any other thoughts you want to share a moment real catalyst in your life that you think would help our listeners?

You know, I’ll leave with one quote that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately, and maybe it gives people some food for thought it’s a Carl Sagan quote, but it’s this idea that he says we are like butterflies, who flutter for a day and think it’s for forever . And I think that [00:42:00] we could all use that mindset of understanding.

You know, life is so precious. Some people say it, life is not so short. We just waste a lot of. And certainly from our conversation today, we don’t wanna waste any more of our time worrying or ruminating or, or thinking the worst we wanna be positive and hopefully find this lighter sense of ourselves in many ways, the unicorn in ourselves, really that special person in ourselves.

And it’s my gratitude to you for having. Me today, but more importantly for all the work that you’re doing. It’s incredible. I follow you all the time and I love listening to your program and your guests. And we’re all lucky to have all the work that you do. Oh man. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Let me ask you one more question. Talked about becoming whole that’s the end game. The Bible talks. It will be perfect. It doesn’t mean to be holy. But de means to be whole wholly is without sin whole means. Yeah, we acknowledge we have sin, but we get it right. [00:43:00] And we’re complete. Describe what a unicorn is to you because people hear the term unicorn, mostly as something playful, something mythical in business, you have a unicorn, right.

But a lot of people don’t understand what that is. So let’s finish this episode with a picture. What is the unicorn for you? You know, if you take a look at my book, you’ll see that there is not a unicorn on it, but instead, and as I worked through the design, I said, there’s not to be a unicorn, but we are going to get the essence of it.

And so I have a number of different imagery and icons on there. That’s colorful and vibrant and in many ways, I think the unicorn represents what’s aspirational to us. It represents light. In many ways, I was told that the book cover looks like a kaleidoscope. And I think that that’s the way we can sort of look at at life and, and in all questions of our viewpoint and all, you know, considers how we look at things [00:44:00] and that’s, that’s effectively.

What the principles are about how we look at life. And I think the unicorn is that ideal symbol. So for many of us, you’re right. It’s playful. And I think that we should keep that in mind to maybe be lighter, to be more playful and the symbol and the inspiration for those that came from my little niece who had these little unicorn sneakers.

And I thought that I wished I could feel the way she looked that sense of. Peace and joy. And that to me is what a unicorn represents that peacefulness that joyfulness, like you’re saying that effort to be whole. And I think if we all just try a little bit each day and remember that it’s a journey and not a destination, and I think that we could all try to get there.

Thank you so much, Josh for being here today, man, it truly has been a pleasure. You’re a remarkable man. And I look forward to continuing the friendship. If, if you have the time, I’d love to just keep staying in touch. You can count on. Thank you my friend. Excellent. [00:45:00] So ladies and gentlemen, you listen to Josh, you got great truth.

And as we all know, all truth comes from God, Josh I and every other person on the. All we can do is take what God’s already establish and just bring it to you maybe in a different format, but it’s the same truth, but you don’t just listen, but do the good, repeat it each day in your life. So you can have an amazing life in this world and most off an attorney to come.

So I’m David Paco alone. This was Mr. Josh Kramer. Thank you so much for being here and we’ll see you in the next episode.


The remarkable people podcast, check it out.

The remarkable people podcast. Listen, do repeat for a Pete for life.[00:46:00]


Josh Kramer
Josh Kramer | Ending Excessive Rumination and Worry, Slowing Our Minds, & Becoming Whole
The Unicorn in You