David & Kirsten D Samuel | Porn, Marriage, Honesty, & Hope

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EPISODE OVERVIEW: 

This special episode of the Remarkable People Podcast, David & Kirsten D Samuel continue their story of a marriage torn apart by pornography addiction, personal trauma, and a lack of honest communication (Season 1 Episode 16). Watch or listen to how the couple not only stayed together, but have a stronger marriage and relationship than before, have learned to be honest with one another, have found Hope, and are actively sharing that Hope with the world. List, Do, Repeat, and Share this episode… for Life!

GUEST BIO: 

Professional writer, Kirsten D Samuel, was uncharacteristically at a loss for words when her husband David confessed his addiction to pornography. Kirsten felt the bottom give way. The months ahead revealed the bottom wasn’t the bottom, it was deeper still as she was diagnosed with clinical depression and PTSD. That was over ten years ago. Now Kirsten serves wives wounded by pornography. She lives each day with her recovered husband as they choose authenticity, love, faith, fun, and forgiveness. Kirsten and Dave openly speak about the millions addicted to porn and God’s redeeming grace.

FEATURED QUOTE(S): 

  • “We need to be gut-level honest with one another, and ourselves. – Kirsten D. Samuel

EPISODE PROUDLY SPONSORED BY:

SHOW NOTES, LINKS, SPECIAL OFFERS, & RESOURCES MENTIONED:

  • Go to Kirsten’s website at https://KirstenDSamuel.com/Remarkable to receive a Free autographed copy of her book, Choosing a Way Out: When the Bottom Isn’t the Bottom. All she asks is that you pay a small shipping & handling fee of $9 for any US address and leave an honest review on Amazon.
  • Need Coaching? Visit https://KirstenDSamuel.com and click the blue button on the home page for a Free 30-minute coaching call.

GUEST CONTACT INFO:

  • Kirsten’s Contact Info
    • KirstenDSamuel.com
    • facebook.com/kirstendsamuel/
    • Instagram.com/kirstendsamuel
    • pinterest.com/kdsamuel/
    • youtube.com/channel/UCbwOm5oBdgkEMESRNwZFLXQ
  • Dave’s Contact Info
    • facebook.com/samuelpenco.colorado
    • Instagram.com/samuelpenco
    • pinterest.com/samuelpenco/
    • SamuelPenCo.com
    • AnpassaCustom.com
    • facebook.com/AnpassaCustom

EPISODE CORE THEMES & MENTIONS:

  • Core Themes: pornography, porn addiction, marriage, divorce, effects of porn on men, effects of porn on women, medicating pain, insecurity, stressors, counseling, hope, saving our marriage, Covenant Eyes, Rob Jackson Counseling, RPP, Remarkable People Podcast, encouraging, podcast, Real, True Story, unscripted, unedited, self improvement, personal development, inspiration, motivation, hope, self help
  • Mentions: Rob Jackson, Covenant Eyes,

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THE NOT-SO-FINE-PRINT DISCLAIMER:


While we are very thankful for our guests, please understand that we do not necessarily endorse the same beliefs, views, and positions that they may have. We respectfully agree to disagree in some areas and thank God for the blessing and privilege of freewill.😇

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The Remarkable People Podcast S2 Episode 30: The David and Kirsten Samuel Story

[00:00:00] David Pasqualone, Host: [00:00:00] Hello friends. This is David Pasqualone with the remarkable people podcast, season two, episode 30, the Dave and, and Kirsten Samuel story.

Intro Outro Reel: [00:00:11] The remarkable people podcast. Check it out. the  remarkable people podcast. Listen, dude. Repeat for life.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:00:34] Hey everybody. It’s so good having you here today. It is a true honor and privilege. And I look forward to every week we can spend together, make sure you subscribe to the podcast in case we do miss that 2:00 AM central time deadline. Every Monday, it’ll let you know when the episode airs, but as for today, you have a super special episode.

It’s a continuation from the Kirsten Samuel story from season one today, David and Kirsten are going to join us. Share David’s side of the story. Continue the story and bring you huge, valuable content, the beginning, middle and end of the show to help you and your loved one, hang tight. Also to the end, David and Kirsten were super kind, gave a special offer to the remarkable people, podcast community.

You can get a free book, and then if you hang tight to the end, they’ll give you the details of how you can do that. Also when you’re listening out there, I wanted to give a couple special, thank you’s. Thank you to Brazil. We were ranked in the top 100 in Brazil. Go Brazil. Same thing. Singapore got an email this week.

Boom. We’re 88 in Singapore. So thank you guys that so fantastic. And I can’t tell you how special that is to me. And then for the people who leave reviews, thank you. Keep leaving them in Stitcher, leave them in pod chaser, Apple, Google, anywhere you can leave those reviews. I love renin, but I happy guy three 65 wrote really enjoyable and real was not sure about this podcast at first, but once I got through a few minutes and saw the show is authentic, helpful, and real, I listened through the rest and the episodes and enjoying them and learning a lot.

So thank you. Happy guy, three 65. Thank you to all of our listeners for being there. Hopefully we can help you grow, overcome the problems in your life and just thrive in the future. If you have any questions, reach out to me at me at David  dot com or you can reach out to the guests, shoot us an email, any way we can help.

We would love to. So at this time, I do not want to keep talking. Check out the episodes we have in the library on the podcast directory, check out the episodes we have on YouTube. This episode actually has a YouTube version. Check that out. And then if you have anything you need, let us know, subscribe, rate, review.

And enjoy at this time, grab your pens, grab your paper, take notes as long as it’s safe to do so don’t do it while you’re driving. And then once you’re done apply it. And if you’re having problems, applying it or need more information or need help, we all need help. As a bowel says iron sharpens iron. So the man accountants of his friend, if you are a husband or wife, and you’re having an addiction to porn, If you’re single and you’re just depressed and you’re seeing the effect, the negative effect porn has on you.

Or if you’re just trying to say, is this really an issue? Call Rob Jackson, Rob Jackson, we refer to in the episode with Kirsten, Samuel and season one, we’re going to refer to Rob Jackson during this episode. And then in a future episode, maybe even next week, Rob Jackson is going to appear on the remarkable people podcast.

And you’re going to see that this is the man that God used to change David and Kirsten’s lives, not just marriage. And he’s helped dozens of hundreds of other people with sexual addiction, marriage recovery, and all sorts of other things. So Rob is licensed in Colorado and I believe Mississippi, but he can coach you from anywhere in the country.

So there’s a difference between counseling and coaching. Rob has the ability to do both check out his link in the show notes. If you need help, reach out to Rob for free consultation and then see if a relationship’s the right fit. But I’ve personally formed a relationship with Rob I’ve personally talked to him about some of the demons in my closet, and he’s already been a huge blessing in my life.

He’s been a huge buzzing and David and Kirsten’s life. He’ll be a huge blessing in your life too. [00:05:00] So check out, Rob Jackson, the iceberg model of Christian spiritual formation. The show notes. Call him if you have any questions, call me if you have any questions and now let’s get onto the show. Guys, thanks for being here today.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:05:17] It’s a

David Samuel, Guest: [00:05:17] pleasure. A great privilege, David. Thank you.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:05:19] Oh no, it’s my honor. Thank you for being here. We actually had a quick tech session yesterday, so we played with the technology and ladies and gentlemen, as you know, as a listener. We were planning on season three, doing video cast, but it’s just so much fun.

We’re going to do it in season two. So David and Kirsten, thank you so much for being here and for continuing the story. if you were with us last season, you can go to our website, a remarkable pupil podcast.com. And if you scroll through, you can see episode 16 was Kirsten story. Yes. And what we’re going to talk about today is a continuation.

But before we do David, can you give us a summary of your side of the story and kind of your perspective and, what we’re going to do for the listeners? This episode has multi-facets. This episode is for people who are addicted to pornography, male or female, this episode is for people who are in their marriage with a secret of pornography.

This episode is how. You can not only overcome this in your own life, but how you begin and fulfill the healing process in your marriage. And then how to hopefully break these chains for your children. So with that, we’ve got a lot to cover. And David, go ahead and let’s just talk about your story.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:06:43] Well, David, I was, it all started, I was exposed to pornography as a child of about six years old, five or six.

It’s hard to remember, but, just innocently enough, was, was shown some material, you know, it didn’t. I didn’t know what it was, but that planted the seeds of just more curiosity, more, things that needed to be. Featured and, and, and grew from that. So trace it back to that. As a, as a young young child, I was, I was a skinny kid.

I was short, I was small. I was picked on at school. So, a lot of it was. My medication of choice of dealing with some real insecurity issues that, that I was dealing with. And, you know, just was the, the, the medication that I, I used to escape. And, you know, I really didn’t understand that until a few years ago.

Well, 10, 15 years ago, but, it was one of these struggles where pornography always seemed to. Find its way into my path. And, and I don’t know, it wasn’t something that I was searching for early on it. We would just happen to be there. And, you know, the curiosity was there and because of those seeds from early on, so that grew, Before the age of before the years of internet, it was pretty controlled because you had to actually go out of your way to, to find it and to search things out.

but with the advent of the internet, you know, mid nineties, when we first got our computer, it became a real problem with easy access and the privacy aspect of things where I could just seclude and. And just feed that, that curiosity, and that got to the point where, yeah, and it was a cycle, it was a, it was a thing of, you know, I, I would look at it.

I would hate myself for it. I put aside, I’m going to get better at this. And then, you know, Two months later it come up again. And it was this, this cycle of we call the cycle of shame and, and that continued for a number of years until finally I was caught and I had to deal with that publicly and openly.

And. Yeah, I almost lost my job, but with some intervention of, of some friends of counseling, of just acts of grace from the Lord, we were able to, you know, get that taken care of and move beyond that.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:09:12] Amen. I just want to stress this to the audience and thank you both. When this topic is discussed. There’s different extremes.

It seems when people talk about pornography, they’re like, who cares? It’s totally accepted, but it’s super destructive and powerful. Right. Then you have the ultra conservative side. It’s like, it’s taboo. Don’t talk about it. Don’t be involved in it. Your shame, what’s wrong with you for being involved in this right.

And what I’ve found in life, that’s really sad is when we go through struggles like Dave, for you to talk about us, it takes a lot of courage. And for Kirsten, for you to talk about, it takes a lot of courage and it’s hard. So as the audience, please appreciate that they’re sharing with you deep sensitive things that stir up [00:10:00] emotions and stir up feelings.

But thank God for you because most people who go through this stuff, Even if they’re victorious, they won’t talk about it. They won’t talk about it because the level of pain, they won’t talk about it because of the embarrassment, the effect that will have on their children. So we have a real treat today that they’re not only experiences and been victorious over it, but now they’re sharing the insights with it.

Cause there aren’t many people will do that and it may be that, you know, you’re listening and you have this issue and you’re like, well, I can’t share it because it’ll hurt other people. Well, that’s true. Hmm, but listen to their story and share their story. This is a great opportunity because millions of people around the world are struggling with porn.

There’s just as many, I don’t want to say just as many, but the growth rate among women in porn and adultery is higher than men percentage wise, and people involved in porn. It’s just, it’s just, what’s the word it’s epidemic. It’s worse than coronavirus, for sure. So I didn’t mean to cut you off, but I really want people to listening.

To understand the importance of this

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:11:03] well and what the statistics validate what you’re saying, Dave. And that is that one quarter 25%. And these statistics are a few years old, so it’s worse now, but 25% of all internet searches are pornographic related. They’re sex related. It’s the number one topic. Sex is the number one topic of internet searches.

Me, just let that sink in for a minute. And you know, in marriage, you know, people say that all the pornography it’s okay. You know, boys will be boys or whatever. No, I’m sorry. It is not okay. Pornography destroys marriages period. And the end of story. It is never. Okay. And that’s a really hard line for it to take, but we’ve discovered what it does in a marriage.

It tried to destroy our marriage. And it came really, really close as we talked about in the last, you know, and the last, episode, but poor, not the pornography industry today has, is making more money than Microsoft. Yahoo, eBay, Apple, Netflix, and EarthLink combined, combined. So if, if people say it’s not a big deal, I’m sorry, the stats prove differently.

And you know, pornography involves someone’s. Daughter, sister, brother, husband, wife. And they’re not doing this voluntarily. The, you know, the, the, I read an article just a few months ago on some research being done to rescue some. And this was women rescue women that were caught from human trafficking into porno pornographic, making pornographic movies.

And one of the things that just stands out to me from that article in it, it breaks my heart. Let me think about it is there was a, a woman like a young woman who was from a very middle class to upper class family in the United States. So this is not outside of the United States. This, this was within the United States.

She got caught into a trafficking, circle pornographic circle. And there was another woman that she befriended in there. Well, this woman decided she wasn’t going to do this anymore. And they were all brought, she would go back to her regular life and then be brought back to this location. One time they were brought back to this location and they were forced to watch this other woman who was trying to get out, be murdered.

So don’t tell me that this is okay. This is not okay. This is huge.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:13:53] Yeah. And there’s people, listen now I’m like, well, that’s the extreme and most of them like, aren’t like that. They want to do it. No, I mean, there’s a, there’s a mentality. That’s degenerative each generation and yeah, people are accepting it.

More people are being tricked by it more, but it’s like, drugs are like crack. It’s like super bad and it gets you addicted and it seems fun, but it takes years to show. The detriment, right? There’s some things that show detriment much faster and you can be on a sexual addiction right through the roof.

You go from zero to death, you go to zero to bondage or something crazy. But for, I’d say for the average person, it’s a progression, but then once it gets to the point where it’s out of control, They don’t know what to do. So if you’re listening now, if you’re beyond the point of control, so to speak, listen to David and Carson and how to get help if you’re reaching that point and you think it’s a fun ride, listen up.

If you’re in shame and you know, what’s wrong. But you keep going back to Medicaid, Dave, I hate that word. I think that’s [00:15:00] like, for me, that would be the nail on the head when I have addictions it’s to medicate pain. Right. And there’s different types of addictions and mine were always medicating. So when you said that word, it connected like that.

so let’s continue with the story cause there’s so much to it. so you guys are married. Yep. Dave, you get caught looking at porn at work. So now you have not only the marriage aspect and the wife, the children, the friends of family, but now you have your gainful employment, right? They were kind enough and godly enough and gracious enough to keep you on and to work with you.

And you had all these things working together. But it was an easy journey. Right? Super simple, quick take up there in the story, let people know from your perspective and you guys can go back and forth, but how did you get to the point of victory after years of slavery?

David Samuel, Guest: [00:15:53] Well, I think the first part was that.

You know, I had to come clean and I think that’s the, that’s the hardest part. And, you know, we hear this, you know, the first step to taking care of an addiction is to admitting that you have one and, you know, we kind of brushed that off, but that’s a difficult step, you know, to, to come out and to say, okay, I have this problem.

I need help. you know, the, the macho male image, you know, is, well, I can do this myself, which, you know, I told myself for years, but that’s a lie, you know, there’s, there are many things we cannot do ourselves. We do need the help of others. And,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:16:28] that’s the cycle of shame. Yeah,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:16:30] exactly. And another thing too is not to interrupt you, but.

Oh guys, look at porn. That’s part of being a man, right? And looking at women. That’s, that’s a lie. That’s a lie. But what I’m saying is that it’s like if a girl hits on you, it’s sexual harassment guys make fun of you. If you complain. But if a lady gets sexually harassed, Oh man, that’s over the dude’s fire.

Right. But our society is still so backwards in ways. So if you’re a guy and you’re sexually harassed, it’s like, what’s wrong with you, dude. You should like that. That’s the mentality that chain tries to put in our head. So you were up against the law even just to come clean.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:17:04] Right. And thankfully God in his mercy put in my path.

and, and even before this all came out, several godly men that I could, you know, that I worked, that I felt close enough with that I could approach and say, okay, I’ve got this issue. And that was one of the things when I, when I. First, was approached by our HR department to say, okay, what’s what’s going on?

You know, their thing was okay, you need to think about a plan that you’re going to put into place to get this taken care of. And it was like, I don’t even know where to start. Cause I’ve been trying to do this for years, you know, probably, Oh, it’d be, it’d been 10 years by that point of, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna work on this.

but having to. One come clean to Kirsten about it. and then trying to think, okay, who do I have that I can go to? And, and there were several men that, one in particular that I, that I went to, that, that Kirsten talks about in the book that, you know, called him up. We had breakfast, I had to put this plan together and he and I.

Mapped out on a napkin, a breakfast that, that next day. Okay. Here are the steps that we think this is going to work. And I had to present that to the, the HR representative that afternoon. And,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:18:20] did you transfer it from the napkin?

David Samuel, Guest: [00:18:22] yes. It had, it had grease stains on it. It was like, this is kind of tacky,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:18:27] but the best business plans are made on that.

Right.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:18:29] Right. Exactly. But, yeah, it was just getting that plan in place and really not knowing where to start. That was the, that was the whole problem of, you know, I’ve tried this, I’ve tried everything. Where do I go from here? And. The plan that he, P and I mapped out together, he did most of the mapping.

I just kind of sat there and agreed

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:18:50] because we were both in this putter stunned shock of our world just blew up. And how did that happen? So I was no help to him. One, because I was so shocked and two, I was angry that was mad. And we’ve talked about that, but, you know, He’d asked me, you know, what are you think I can do?

And, and in my naivete, I just said, we’ll stop it. Just stop it. Well, I didn’t understand addiction at

David Samuel, Guest: [00:19:20] the old Bob new heart video, skinny just stop. It’s actually

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:19:23] a great video sketch for most addictions. That actually is a great video. If you don’t know, I’ll put a link in the show notes, I’m going to put that down.

That’s a great video.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:19:34] It’s one we refer to often because that was exactly my, my response was well. Just stop it, you know? Yeah.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:19:42] Right. I’m going to put you in a box. You will watch the video and laugh and know what we’re talking about later. Alright. So yeah. So this is super in every aspect of your minds are just running different directions.

There’s different levels of fear, anger, all these [00:20:00] emotions, you put together a plan and then take us from there.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:20:04] Yeah. Well, the plan involved, Involve personal counseling for me, it involved, couples counseling for, for both of us marriage counseling, it involved, Accountability software on my computer and two, so that other others could know what I was looking at and, and be able to ask questions and just check up on me if they’re, if they saw something was going awry.

I, I had to cut out all business travel, cause that was a, that was a big issue as well. And then, we, we went, we went, we had this restoration team, which was, three different couples that. We handpicked, to come alongside and to help with this. Now, the guy that I originally met, was familiar with this process and he was the one that actually suggested it sounded great to me.

It was like, okay, this, this sounds like it might work with several couples. The hard thing though, was finding two other couples that we both agreed on either. I liked the guy and she didn’t care for the woman or. Vice versa.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:21:10] Well, and the other thing was that, because this was a spiritual restoration team, they had to be, we had to know that they had a strong relationship with Jesus Christ and that they, they were walking, they were walking out their faith every day.

So there were some couples that we thought about where one or the other of them, we just from observing them, felt like maybe, maybe they wouldn’t. Wouldn’t have enough courage to get in our face because we needed people who were willing to look at us and say, no, that is not okay. Yeah. You know, call us out on, on different things.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:21:48] And there was one individual that, one, couple that we knew that I was thinking about, and I made a suggestion about that. But then in thinking about it more, it was, well, you know, they’re there spiritually. Alive, but he was dealing with the same issues. So it wouldn’t have been. He probably wouldn’t have been as, hard on me, accountability wise.

Cause he would say, well, you know, I still, I get that. So it’s not that big of a deal. So I needed somebody that was going to really people who were really going to hold my feet, our feet. Well, my feet to the fire.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:22:25] Well, that wasn’t true. But that’s how I thought at the time. Right.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:22:28] So, yeah. Yeah. So that was the process. And that was the plan that was laid out. It was accepted by the HR department and then we put it in motion. and there were, there were a lot of humbling things along the road, along the line. there were several business trips that I, I we’re too close.

I couldn’t get someone else to cover for me. So I had to figure out how to make that happen. And, Well, one of the things was, is that, My daughter and I were actually doing these events. She worked at the same company and we were doing these events together. She was planning them and I was executing them from a technical standpoint.

And I had to give her my computer at night just so that we could keep things accountable. And that to a dad that was super humbling of just, well, I’ve made a mess of this. And so not only was there the personal aspect of it for me personally, but there was also. The implications of a marriage, obviously, but also the implications with the kids.

And how was I going to deal with this with the children? And of course we did sit, we sat down and I talked to them each individually and told them what was going on and asked for forgiveness. And, but then walking that out and that was, you know, What, what grown man has to give his daughter his 20 year old daughter, his computer.

So it doesn’t look at pornography while, you know, he’s in a hotel room and it’s just like, what, what mess have I made of this? So, that was another aspect of it that we had to deal with was the children. Fortunately, they were very gracious and very forgiving and, And walked through it with us.

But, one of the things that, one of the things that came into my mind was that, and I don’t know where we heard this, I heard it somewhere, but it was, we teach our kids how to succeed and how to do well in life. But we often fail to teach them how to fail. Well,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:24:25] that was during our restoration group.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:24:27] And so I wanted to.

Model. Okay. Yeah, dad’s blown it. This is what happens when, when sin gets involved and I’ve blown it spiritually, but how can I recover? How can we, how can I fail well and recover from this?

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:24:45] Yeah, and that is huge because a lot of kids, they see conflict, but they don’t know how to resolve conflict. And along with adults don’t know how to resolve conflict.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:24:54] We don’t teach our children that we want, where we focus on helping them to be productive. [00:25:00] Parts of society. Right? And I remember

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:25:03] shaking my head at you and watching super disgusting with the school systems and they teach you all the crap you don’t need in life, but the core skills they don’t teach you.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:25:13] Well, it’s, you know, it’s like I tell young moms when the first time you, you have your first child, everybody tells you how to change a diaper, how to burp them, how to feed them. You know, what a watch for, you know, if a fever, how do you check a fever? But nobody tells you how to actually rear that child.

They just hand you this child and say, go for it. And you’re like, what? You know, it’s the same thing. When, when we’re, when we’re rearing our children, we want them to succeed. We want them to do well, but we forget that failure is we’ve we’ve in our minds, twisted failure into something that’s so negative when in fact.

Failure is actually one of our greatest teachers. You know, you look at the greatest inventions of the world, the fact that we’re using technology today, the greatest, you know, inventions in the world, how many times were there failures? Thomas Edison said, you know, that he did not fail 10,000 times. He learned 10,000 things that did not work.

Right? So it’s a mindset shift and, you know, When we were in the middle of this, when we were in, in the deep dark part of this, we’ve both felt like failures. We both were looking at this as this is it. This is the end. This is the destruction. This is we’ll never be able to lift our heads again. And I believe that that was a lie from Satan.

I know it was, he was using that to try to destroy us, to beat us down. And in the, in the place that we both were at the time we were succumbing to that. And the beauty of this restoration group was that they began to pray for us and to pray over us. They began to not only deal with the mess that we were in.

And we were, we were in a mess in every area of our lives that when this happened, but they began to call out the good. They began to point us to the benefits they began to help us see the hope that can come. They didn’t, they didn’t minimize the struggle because, you know, a butterfly is only beautiful because of the struggle that I went through to come out of that cocoon.

cause it, when he went into the cocoon, it was kind of ugly. And that’s the way that I described this in the book is that this restoration team actually put us in a cocoon and that cocoon was God given because it allowed us the freedom and the space and the security, the safety two. Come clean

David Samuel, Guest: [00:27:50] and to be authentic

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:27:51] and to be authentic.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:27:53] I think the, one of the hardest things about the restoration team process, like I said, was selecting the couples to go through that with us. Because as in all, addictions isolation is the big key. And we and secrecy, and we had become so isolated. We didn’t have any couples that we were friends with that we both enjoyed being around.

And so that was a struggle. And you know, it was, it took a while, but God put. The names of those couples in our mind to actually approach. And we had to go and approach them and tell them what was going on and ask them to commit to 18 plus months of, you know,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:28:36] meeting with us

David Samuel, Guest: [00:28:38] weekly. That’s a lot of

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:28:39] being available to us

David Samuel, Guest: [00:28:40] and who has that time, you know?

And it’s like, nobody’s going to want to do that, but right. That’s another lie is that nobody’s going to want to help because that’s not the truth.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:28:50] Yeah. And pause there for a second. Cause that’s, that is huge. There’s a real obstacle, but then there’s a real lie, right? The fact is so many homes are plagued by pornography and adultery today that it’s hard to find somebody who’s pure.

And then when you find someone you may not know, like you may be friends with a gentleman, Dave, And, you know, he’s addicted to porn, but obviously you don’t tell your wife cause that’s private guy stuff. Right. So then that’s a couple that’s off the table, but now you can’t tell your wife that either.

Right. And then likewise, you may have a friend who’s having issues, Kirsten and same thing. But then on top of it, there has to be the willingness and the time. So it’s not an easy fit. But it’s there and you’ve got to search and your life is worth it. Your marriage is worth it, but let’s, let’s backtrack.

There’s something that keeps going through my head, Dave.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:29:43] Okay.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:29:45] And then I’m going to ask you the same exact question. Kirsten. What are the downfalls of pornography? Cause people who are addicted to it are people medicating it and they’re listening right now. [00:30:00] They’re just looking at, I want the hit, I want that feeling.

I want that thrill, but when you pull that away and you start looking at the reality of it. Oh. Wine to help. You’ll see. What are the real downfall, short term and long of pornography for a guy. And then we’ll do the same thing for a woman.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:30:17] Yeah, I think for a man, it sets up false expectations. Okay. What.

What a guy sees in pornography because okay. We’re created to be visual beings. God created us to be attracted to beauty. And, I mean, that’s, that’s the way we’re wired and that’s great. The downfall is, is that what we see in pornography is not real. It’s either doctored somehow, or there’s, you know, in, in photographs it will be, it’ll be airbrush.

It’ll be Photoshop to make it look even better to hide all the flaws. And so if, if we think of that as being real, then we go into the marriage relationship and see our wife as, Oh, well, Golly, this is not what, not what I’m used to saying. And we start comparing and we start holding her up to a false standard instead of accepting her for.

For whom she is and, and for the way that God made her. And, and so that’s a huge danger of the, of that comparison. And then, then it escalates to, well, you know, somebody else has got it better than, than I do. And then it goes down to, I just need to find somebody else. Cause, cause this person is flawed.

What about,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:31:40] I’m sorry. I would say what about the effects on yourself too? Like how did you view yourself besides just a shame? Did it. What’s the word overflow into other areas of your life?

David Samuel, Guest: [00:31:52] I think so because, the shame was definitely the biggest part and, and that was, that was one aspect of, of coming, you know, as a believer, as a believer in Jesus Christ and, and, and medicating in this way, there was the shame of, I should not be doing this.

And I think we mentioned in the book that it was always a paradox for me of. I found myself attracted to this material when. Non-believing friends were repulsed by it. And it was like, well, what is really wrong with me that I have to, so I have to do this and I’m seeking this. And so that was always really strange and I never could come to grips with that.

So, and that just spiraled spiraled me down the shame cycle and you’re worthless. And then that. Increased more need for medication for the hit to overcome that. And so it was a, a real cyclical nature with that and, and progressive.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:32:48] and I want to ask you professionally, physically, did you find yourself cause you were disgusted with yourself, not taking care of yourself as well.

Not being as professionally, you know, as aggressive, maybe.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:33:01] It’s it’s hard to really think back to that. I think the big thing for me was, was the shame and the, and the, the heightened inadequacy feeling. Yep.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:33:11] What’d you say, like, you know, physically, are you healthier if you were looking at shelf physically, would you say are in better shape and healthier now than you were 15 years ago?

I

David Samuel, Guest: [00:33:19] would say so. Yeah.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:33:20] Yeah, because that’s subtle that self hatred, right. You don’t want to take care of yourself. Right. So

David Samuel, Guest: [00:33:26] when you’re a self fulfilling prophecy.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:33:28] Yeah. And you’re like, I deserve bad. So you fulfill with that and I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I’m just trying to like.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:33:35] Yeah.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:33:36] Yeah. I mean, like, I can see a picture of you now, and I saw a picture of you from before and you look better today than you did, man.

You got a good use.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:33:42] Yes. I agree.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:33:45] You’re not there for 25

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:33:47] and counting.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:33:48] Yeah. Alright. And what about from the woman’s cycle? Like whether a woman’s involved in it or what’s the effect of you? Like the psyche? Like what’s going on there from porn? What are the downfalls of it?

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:34:00] Well, there’s several that go on for a woman.

And it’s, you know, you, you have, you have these reactions that are opposite ends of the spectrum. Really one of them is complete discussed, you know, you’re just, you’re just disgusted by the fact that, you know, the one person that you’ve trusted your entire life with. Is choosing something that’s fake over you.

So then that puts you into this, this cycle of, well, then what’s wrong with me? You know, I guess I’m not good enough. I’m not sexy enough. My body isn’t good enough, which, you know, yes, I can control that. No, I can’t some stuff, you know, the whole taking care of yourself versus the not taking care of yourself, but, you know, I mean, I.

God created me the way he created me. So I may not, you know, I’m not as tall, I’m not built tall in live, you know, I’m kind of short and a little bit on the stocky side. That’s the way I’m built. that doesn’t [00:35:00] give me excuse that were, I took it into an addiction to food, you know, that doesn’t give me the right.

And that addiction to food was covering up some internal pain for me, but it also made me feel worthless. and it, it, you know, the crazy thing about pornography is that people say, well, you know, maybe I should join my husband in the porn. Well, even if you do that, any marriage that has pornography in it in any way, shape or form is 300% more likely to result in infidelity 300 more, present, more.

So I found myself struggling with, well, if he’s doing that, then I could do this. You know, why not? He’s already destroyed our marriage. So it doesn’t matter what I do. Well, yes, it does matter what I do because that was going to destroy me even further. and the crazy thing is that, aye, didn’t believe that I already knew about the addiction, but I did.

Because there was, there were warning signs he gave off and I kept blowing past them. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve written about some of those warning signs and that’s on my website. You know, people can go there and get it. It’s a free ebook, but

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:36:21] link to that in the show notes and your

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:36:22] posts. Yeah. It’s the 10 warning signs.

Your gut already knows, you know, one of the things that God has created women with is this. Kind of a, more of a sensitive nature, typically in that’s, you know, broad strokes, there’s more sensitive nature where we tend to be a little bit more intuitive than most men. and, and that is because we’re nurturing.

That’s the way we’re created as women to be nurtured. And I knew. As I looked back, I knew something was wrong. one of the things that, that as we look back on it, and we’ve talked about, this is we could see how the pornography was affecting us in our intimacy. because he couldn’t be honest. About what was going on.

He wasn’t being honest with me and because I was dealing with the depression and some other things, I wasn’t being honest with Dave. And so these addictions, whatever they are, we’re destroying our marriage from the inside out because we weren’t being authentic. We weren’t being real. We were hiding and, You know, I know we’ve talked about that.

One of the things that pornography for a man, like he said is you expect the woman to no certain things. Well, I never looked at pornography, you know, other than the fact that I happened to be somewhere and saw a Playboy magazine laying open, and I turned my head as fast as I could and walked away. And that was my exposure.

I didn’t, you know, some of the things that are now available through more progressive porn. A woman who has never exposed herself to that does not know what those are. W w we were. And yet the man who has been viewing this expects that when you’re in a, you know, a position of intimacy, that the woman’s going to know that this is what she supposed to common.

This is common knowledge. She supposed to know this well, I don’t, and I felt stupid. Because, you know, it was like, what are you, what are you doing? And, and, and I would, and I felt stupid that I didn’t understand. And I just blew it. I, you know, I just pawned it off as well. I’m, I’m, I’m dumb. I don’t know. You know, so there’s, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of factors that go in and they’re very subtle.

They’re they’re, some not so subtle some, but a lot of them are very subtle. one of the things that we’ve had to really work at is developing that complete authenticity, that complete honesty with each other, even, even during sex, you know, to say. You know, what, what is good? What’s not good. What’s what that, in an what, how does that make you feel and why are you, you know, doing this and talking about it?

Where’s that coming from, you know, is this coming from, a place of wanting to cherish your spouse or is it coming from pornography? and Gary Thomas has written a great book called cherish. and I re I recommend any married, couple read it because it goes beyond the thought of, love to the point of cherishing.

And if you think about what you cherish in your life, whatever that is, how do you treat whatever that object is of, of being cherished? That changes your perspective when you start to look at your spouse. Like when I look at Dave and I think about, I want to cherish him, so that’s going to change how I think, how I behave, the, the things that I will do for him.

And it’s not a matter of, you know, while he expects it. No, I’m trying to find ways that he does not expect me [00:40:00] to do something. To show him a much. I cherish him. Pornography is not cherishing. It is taking. It is, it is, it is selfish and is Rutgers

David Samuel, Guest: [00:40:10] selfish.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:40:11] And as I read that book, cherish, I thought, Oh, wow, I’m not even doing this.

And yet that’s what I deeply desire because God has created us to be in, you know, in such an intimate relationship with himself that we, we know what it feels like to be cherished by God. Because we are, we’re all cherished by God. I mean, Jesus, Jesus came and died on the cross to shed his sin, to save us from sin.

So we could be back in that relationship with God. Talk about being cherished. Yeah. You know, so that’s one of the ways that I really see pornography has they tried to destroy us, was to, to, to make. The relationship become very selfish instead of being very much one of how do I serve the other? How do I show my love for them through cherishing them through serving and serving?

Well,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:41:08] well, let’s do this. We’re going to spend the rest of the episode, dealing with the people who want healing. Okay. Okay. And if someone’s still listening, he’s like, forget this. I like it. I like porn, man. It’s great guys. And girls like, man, you can’t even open up. What’s that Instagram. Okay. Like I use, I use social media for just marketing and for connecting with people, but I don’t really like it now.

Our kids not like all kids, they’re like addicted to these social media platforms. Yep. As soon as you go in, I’m just going to use Instagram as an example. Boom. You just see naked guys. And when I said, Hey, basically naked, like yeah, they got their pants on or Braun, but they’re basically naked guys. And girls, all they’re doing is showing, Ooh, this is attractive.

Ooh, this is nice. And you’re just desensitizing these kids and humans where it’s no big deal, but inside they know it’s a big deal, but worse. They like it. I never had as many unsubscribes is when we aired your episode.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:42:12] I’m sorry.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:42:12] No, it’s not. It’s good. I consider it good. I mean, like right now, what I’m seeing is people don’t want to hear pornography is bad because it’s saying I like it and I want to continue, but what they don’t understand, it’s like a Nokia.

There was that fantasy, not fantasy fantasy. And it’s like, yeah, I like it. I like it. I like it. Well, you’re all jackass is pretty soon. It’s gonna catch up. It always catches up. So as a final plea, we’ll do Dave to the man and Kirsten to the women. Dave, what do you see? The guys are like, I like it. I’m not quitting.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:42:47] It is having a destructive effect on your life, whether you realize it or not. And the farther you go, the farther down, the more destruction is happening while you can reach out for help and, and find somebody that you can confide in and get some help, because that’s the only way it’s going to break the cycle, the cycle of shame and just the cycle of the addiction.

You’ve got to, you’ve got to find somebody to reach out to and be mentored by them.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:43:24] I mean, where do you think like fast forward, when I fast forward a pornography addiction, I see a guy who, yeah, so he’s going around, he’s involved in porn. He’s, he’s having sex with all these women. I see a guy who’s going to be alone in 10 years and 20 years and a guy who’s going to be.

Like what’s my life worth. What have I done? And probably has about 13 different diseases to go with it. Right. That’s what I see. So if you’re listening to this,

David Samuel, Guest: [00:43:47] right, and if, if let’s say, you know, for me, it was, I never spent any money on it. It was, it was all just. Very, very secretive, very secluded. I never actually acted out on that.

So, you know, if, if a guy is not acting out on it, it, it just alienates you farther and farther. And not only do you, You know, if you’re acting out, you do have the, the possibility of the diseases and things like that. If you’re not though, you’re, you can destroy your family. You will be alone. You can end up alone by losing your family, losing your kids, your wife, and, and there you are.

You’re just

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:44:28] find a financial impact to that. Right.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:44:31] So there there’s destructive there’s destruction in, in different forms, but, it’s, it’s all destructive.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:44:39] Yeah with porn. I always thought, and just, you guys know I’ll be totally transparent. Some people are addicted to drugs and addicted and medicate with drugs.

Some with, you know, alcohol is a drug, but it’s going to classify and socially different, but it’s a drug. Everybody has different things, eating, whatever it is. Mine was a hundred percent growing up porn in women. So that’s why I’m [00:45:00] so passionate about this. Cause I know personally, just like you, man, it can take a whole, and then I always was terrified by the verse.

They central find you out when you’re sitting here and you’re doing it alone, or you’re listening. It’s like at some point the Bible never lies, you know, in your heart and in your head, it’s going to come back to haunt you. And when you’re looking at porn, whether you’re a teenager, twenties, thirties, sixties, I met a guy who was in his sixties, addicted to porn, ruined his life, leaves his, you know, he’s ending his life in a terrible place.

You can still turn

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:45:33] around.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:45:35] But it’s not where you want to go. So I agree with you completely, Dave

David Samuel, Guest: [00:45:38] and I, and I struggled with, I struggled with the term addiction, you know, am I addicted to this? You know? And it’s that closet thing. All I can stop anytime I want. Okay. but anything if you’re using anything to medicate instead of.

And instead of turning to the Lord as a believer, instead of turning to the Lord, if you’re using something else to medicate through a painful issue, that is an addiction. And so I had to really look at that definition of addiction and, and say, okay, Yeah, I am using this to medicate instead of turning to the Lord with my issues, I’m trying to find peace and comfort elsewhere.

I had to narrow, I had to really broaden my, my definition of addiction to say, yes, I do fall into that because I’m using that instead of turning to, you know, our, our, our father in heaven to help me through this issue. So that’s something that, that, that can be a stumbling block too, of saying, well, I, I may like it, but I’m not addicted to it.

Well, I think, I think your definition is too narrow and you need to broaden that because

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:46:48] yeah. And for the conversations there, you may need to pay more attention to something. It may be it isn’t, you’re addicted. To the cigarette, but you’re addicted to the vault. There’s a void that you’re causing you to drive to that cigarette or to that donut.

Alright, well, Kirsten, how about you? You’re talking to the woman right now. Who’s like, everybody’s doing it. It’s nothing wrong with that. I actually enjoy it. I do it with my boyfriend. What do you say to her?

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:47:14] I say to her that your life can be so much more rich than it is right now. You are, you are exchanging.

Okay. Pennies for billions of dollars. You are, you are accepting a cheap substitute for true intimacy. Imagine your life where you can, you can live with another person. And there is nothing that you have to worry about that might come up between the two of you and surprise him. And he’s going to go, what.

And walk away. Imagine that imagine, imagine being in a, an array relationship for the rest of your life, where no matter what happens, you can turn to the other person and they look at you and they accept you completely. They know you there’s no, there’s nothing that you can do where they’re going to walk away.

That’s the benefit. Of not having the lie of pornography, that’s the benefit of living authentically with the other person that’s that is not perfection. In fact, it is the farthest thing from perfection, but it’s the most freeing because I don’t, I’m not trying to remember. Oh, did I, did I say that? Or didn’t I say that or.

Does he know about that? I’m not, I don’t have to remember any of that. I don’t have to remember. I don’t have to keep track of my lies any longer. I, I can admit when I’m just really struggling today and yeah, that bar, that box of cookies looks really good or I’m, I’m really tired and I’m very upset and I’m very angry and.

Right now, I feel like you and I are, you know, about five miles apart. There’s the relationship feels broken. What’s going on and I’m not, I’m not worried that he’s going to tell me he’s been sleeping with another woman. Because we’ve worked through and we’ve, we’ve come so far in an understanding what it means to be completely transparent and authentic with the other person.

That doesn’t mean that we don’t screw up every day. It doesn’t mean that we don’t. Fight. We do. We have hard conversations with each other and sometimes they are, they’re not done as well as they could be, you know? but I’m not worried about him leaving me for another woman. And that’s the progression of pornography.

And for a woman who’s dabbling in pornography, your going to become unsatisfied with your current partner, whether you’re married, living [00:50:00] together or not. Pornography creates a discontent within your heart that can never be satisfied because there’s always this other guy it’s teaching you to look at the other human being as a piece of meat.

Not as a human being who has emotions, who has a heart who has real feelings, who needs to be treasured and cared for. And yes, cherished it breaks the thing that the woman wants the more, most, and that is relationship pornography of drives. A mile wide wedge between you and the person you’re deeply desiring that relationship with you can never cross it as long as pornography is there because pornography is not about relationship.

It’s all about getting my sexual needs met any way I can and it’s plastic and it’s fake. It is, it is destructive as its nature. It is not the way God designed relationships to be. God designed relationships to be safe, secure, monogamous, and honoring, but pornography seeks anything, but it says the more partners you can have the better.

And I’m sorry, that is not what a woman desires. There’s an old, old saying that women play at sex to get love and men play at love to get sex, to see the difference in the way the thinking. Well, wanting to be loved means I want to be cherished. I want that deep relationship. And that’s what’s at the heart of every woman is the fact that she needs relationship.

Well, the fastest way to not achieve that desire is to be involved in pornography, to be watching it, to be partaking in it in any way, shape or form to be reading romance novels that are pornographic.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:51:57] Yeah, a woman reading porn or a man looking at it’s the same thing.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:52:02] It’s the same thing. It is not, it is not, you’re not feeding what you need and the freedom that comes from turning away from that and saying, I’m going to choose the other way.

I am going to choose to throw myself headlong. And that’s what we had to decide. To throw ourselves headlong into saving this marriage. Well, we got a result we didn’t anticipate, and that is that God gave us a brand new marriage. He didn’t save our marriage. He completely made it new. We are not the people that we were when this blew up almost 15 years ago.

We, we look at life differently. We see each other differently. We treasure each other different. I know. I know that I can run to him and I can be obliterating idiot. And he’s going to be okay. He’s he’s going to wrap his arms around me. He’s going to hold onto me. I just did this a couple of weeks ago.

Okay. So I know this true to form where I couldn’t even make sense in what I was saying. And yet he knew that my heart was broken. And he didn’t try to fix it. He couldn’t fix it. There was no way to fix what was going on, but he knew that all I had to do was get this out to the point where I could begin to make sense of what was happening inside my heart.

I’ve I’ve had to apologize to him because in the middle of a very stressful situation, I used extremely harsh words and responded to him and I wounded him and I heard him and I took out on the one person I can trust. The, you know, my frustration with someone else. Well, I had to apologize and guess what he accepted me.

And I knew when I went to apologize to him that he would accept me didn’t excuse my behavior. But there was safety there. Yep. There was safety insecurity. And as a woman, That means more to me than anything in the world. Is he a perfect man? Absolutely not. I don’t want to be married to perfect, man. Thank you very much because I’m not perfect.

And that would make me mad if he were perfect. So, you know, no, I don’t want to be married to a perfect man. And if you’re a woman thinking that while you have to do is find that perfect, man, I have really bad news for you. First of all, he doesn’t exist. The only one that was ever perfect was Jesus Christ.

And secondly, he’s not going to find you because you’re not perfect. So you got to get over that. You got to get over yourself.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:54:31] Sorry. That’s okay.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:54:33] Oh, well, well said, so let’s talk about this healing and let’s talk about what it looks like, because you’ve obviously been 15 years. You’re thriving. You’re speaking, you’re writing, you’re helping you’re counseling.

You’re helping couples. The only other thing I want to say to the people actively involved in porn, it could be any one of us. But no, it will escalate.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:54:57] Yes.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:54:58] Escalates and [00:55:00] slowly but surely it will escalate sometimes it’s fast. And one of the top ways that I see, like, you know, when I’m speaking with people about this issue, all the crossing of mental lines with homosexuality and with so many weird sexual fetishes, They get involved in normal porn and they’re exposing, it’s cross these other porn and then they’re searching for something heterosexual.

Excuse me. I got allergies. That’s why videos. No different Marin keeps seeing me mute the mic and turn a cough. But what happens is people who are heterosexual are looking at stuff and then crossing wires in their brain because they’re seeing homosexual. So all sin is sin. But there is a gross difference between sexual sin.

In other forms of sin. That’s in the Bible. All sin will bring you to hell. We all deserve hell, but God’s gracious. And he saves us. So everything we’re talking about today can be forgiven and healed, but there’s going to be consequences and scars. We’re trying to keep you from getting these scars because we’ve all experienced it the hard way.

So please listen. And take the easy road, listen to Dave and Kirsten, please, please listen to God.

David Samuel, Guest: [00:56:26] It’s not easy, but yes, it is. The alternate road will eventually lead to life inhaling.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:56:33] Yes. Yeah. Well, one of the things that occurred to me, Oh, but I just a few weeks ago, as I was thinking about this and processing and, with the, you know, the quarantines that we’re all under in everything.

If you were in a marriage that is hurting, this is escalating. This is the, you know, if there’s pornography in your marriage, this is escalating in this quarantine.

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:56:57] And you’re about to go through the roof.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [00:56:59] They, they are. And first of all, divorce is more expensive then, then getting help. All right. You may not think so.

You may think that I’m just going to walk away and you know, I I’ll be fine. I’ll find somebody else. That may be true. You will find somebody else. And, and I’m saying this to people where there is not abuse going on. I want to be very clear about this. This is not where there is physical, emotional, or sexual abuse going on.

All right. Or even spiritual abuse. If you were an abusive situation, you need to get out. You need to be safe. First of all, and if there’s children involved, you need to get your children’s safe. But I’m talking about couples like us, who there was not abuse going on. There was, you know, there was a mess. He was, he was not good, but it wasn’t abusive.

All right. So there’s, I want to make that big distinction, but. One of the things that I’ve been processing. And I think that God gave me as I was processing through some of this is the word that we are all seeking stability. Right? If you ask people what they want, they just, they just want their life to settle down.

They want, you know, they want to have a normal paycheck. They want life to be good. That’s stability, right? We just want life to be stable. Well, that’s a myth, but because life is never stable. There’s always something going on that’s life. but as I was thinking about that word stability, I came up, you know, I believe that God gave me some things to think about with stability.

And the first one is, is S means we need to be seeking God every day. So, how do you heal the wounds in your marriage? First of all, you’re on your face. You’re on your knees. You’re into God’s word every day. You are submitting yourself to the, to the one who created you, who desires to be in relationship with you.

Who wants, who has a plan for your life? You can’t even. You can’t even imagine. And so, but you’re not going to discover what that is. You’re not going to understand his heart for you. If you’re not seeking him. If you’re not, not daily in the Bible, reading him, if you don’t know where to start, start in the book of Psalms some of the most real writings in the book in the Bible, because David wrote a lot of them, King David, and he talked about all the stupid things that he did.

And he talked about his hurts and his pain. He talked about his anger. It’s all there or start in the gospel of John. If you want to see the heart of Jesus, read the gospel of John. The second thing is

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:59:33] I agree with you. I never understood Psalms until I was in the lowest point of my life. Yep. That’s right.

I mean, you go in certain bits and pieces. But I didn’t get it that legitimate. I didn’t get it. And then when I was at a low, I was like, Oh, and plus it’s poetic. Right? A lot of poetry guy. I’m like engineering brain. So

David Samuel, Guest: [00:59:51] if you,

David Pasqualone, Host: [00:59:52] so if you’re listening and you’re like, I never understood that when you’re in a low you’ll understand it.

But John God’s love what a beautiful book that [01:00:00] is. I agree with you completely.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:00:01] Yes. The second thing is truth. Truth about what’s going on in your life as well as in your marriage. And this is not truth about your spouse, because we all project things onto our spouse. We make judgements against the other person, but you can’t see my heart and I can’t see your heart, but God does.

So it’s time to come clean about you in an as, and as our marriage recovered, I had to come clean about me as well. And that was, that was the big struggle for me. I had to realize that I couldn’t change him. The only person I could change was me. And I couldn’t make him do something. That’s another false lie.

We don’t get to make people do anything. We can influence them, but we can’t make them do that. So be truthful, be truthful about the addiction in the costs of the addiction and the cost of recovery or not recovery. You know, my coach tells me that there’s two kinds of pain. There’s, there’s acute pain and there’s chronic pain.

You get to choose, which you’re in acute pain is like going into surgery and going under the knife and they cut out the disease and then they saw it back together. And man, it hurts. It hurts, but it’s quick, the healing might take a little bit of time, but the removal of the issue is quick. Chronic pain is knowing there’s a problem and refusing to do anything about it.

And saying, Oh, it’ll be okay. Or I can handle this on my own. Or, you know, eventually it’ll just disappear and go away. That’s a, that’s one. I hear a lot from women whose husbands are addicted to pornography. Well, if I just ignore it, it’ll go away. I thought the same thing. Guess what? It blew up in my face.

It’s going to do the same thing. So be honest, be truthful, be honest about your marriage as well. What’s what’s not working in your marriage and why is it not working? And if you, you know, that’s a lot of times you’re going to need some help. You’re needed a coach. You’re going to need a counselor, something like that.

And that’s one of the things that I do. And Dave and I do with couples. The next one is a ability, which is accountability. Accountability is not somebody else. Holding your feet to the fire. Nobody can do that for you. Remember, we can’t change or make anybody do anything. Accountability is I’m owning my stuff.

So let’s, let’s start being accountable for our words, our actions, our thoughts, and what we’re feeding our brains with the fifth. The next letter is boundaries. Boundaries. There’s a great book by cloud and Townsend. read it, study it. I understand it. But boundaries, I actually are loving. They’re saying everybody they’re saying that here’s where I stop and you begin.

And when you cross that boundary with somebody else, you are being disrespectful. pornography is disrespectful. It is not treating me as, as the one that you see only. Is not treating my it’s not treating Dave that way. If I’m looking at something other than him trying to get a high. That’s, that’s not treating him with respect, boundaries, protect us.

They protect me. They protect you. L is for listen actively so much of the time when we’re talking with people, we’re not listening to them. We’re thinking about what we’re going to say next, or we’re remembering something else. I’m guilty of this all the time, because my brain goes 40 different directions at the same time.

And I have to zero in. And so when we’re talking about something, I have to look him in the eyes. Do you remember with your children? If you’ve had children, you always tell, I used to tell our kids look me in the eyes because then I know I had at least a shot of having their attention, but look them in the eyes, turn off, listen to, what’s not being said as much as what’s being said, active listening.

He is really a gift that we give to the other person. And then last one is emotional intelligence. We have got to, we have got to own how we feel. You can’t make me angry. I choose to be angry by something that was said or done. Dave can’t make me feel worthless. His actions can set me up for that, but I’m choosing to feel worthless in that situation.

So own your emotions, be intelligent with them. It’s really easy to spot someone who is not emotionally intelligent. And when you see a 40 or 50 year old behaving like a three-year-old, you recognize it. Well, I don’t want to be that person. I don’t want to be there. And one of the things that was part of our recovery was learning that emotional intelligence because of the addictions that we both had, we had to discover.

How to relate to each other in ways that were honoring and respectful, as well as acknowledging the emotions, the emotions, your emotions are real. So to tell someone, well, don’t, don’t, you know, just stop it, you know, is, [01:05:00] is not being emotionally intelligent because emotions are the relief valve for all of us.

If you’re angry, okay, I get it. You’re angry. You have a right to be angry, but you do not have a right to destroy anything in the process of that anger. And

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:05:15] what you do with that,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:05:17] right? What you do with that anger is more important than the anger, but you also, I mean, I can feel hurt and I can acknowledge the fact again, going back to being accountable for me, I can acknowledge the fact that when you said that I feel hurt, I feel pain.

I feel wounded. I feel like you are belittling me instead of saying you did this. Changing that language up. So that’s one of the things that God has been teaching me about this whole stability thing is to seek God, be truthful, own my own accountability, set, healthy boundaries, listen, actively and practice emotional intelligence.

That’s going to bring stability into my life or nobody else can do that because I’m responsible for my own stability. And that is based on my relationship with God. That’s why it starts with seeking God.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:06:12] That’s a great acronym. Thank you for sharing that that’s really good. Well, Dave, then the, then the addict been there.

You’re live in Victoria. See every day. What’s your daily checklist for victory. Cause it is daily, right? Not like you’re struggling

David Samuel, Guest: [01:06:31] daily,

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:06:32] but you have to be aware daily, right?

David Samuel, Guest: [01:06:34] It’s a moment by moment. Do you know, my day, I have to start each day in the word. I have to start each day with reading the scriptures in prayer and, and just getting the right perspective on the day.

And, you know, and I understand the triggers. I know that, you know, being hurt and angry and tired and lonely and bored, those are, those are five big triggers for me that I need to, if I’m feeling that I’ve got to say, okay, What’s what’s going on or be very careful, but it’s also just so that’s how I start the day, but then it’s just each moment saying, okay.

What am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? What do you know what’s going on? And, it’s just, it’s just taking it’s that whole concept of taking every thought captive, which I’ve heard all my life and never really understood, but it’s just being aware of why am I thinking that? Why am I feeling this way?

And, what is a proper biblical response? To how I should be doing this. You know, the, the whole thing of, you know, God’s not going to tempt you beyond what you were able to bear, but will make a way of escape. And it’s like, okay, well, if he said that, then there’s gotta be a way of escape. And now Lord, how do I find that?

What is that way of escape? So it’s just a, it’s a moment by moment process. Some days are easier than others. Depending upon how crazy the week has been. You know, if, if, if we haven’t had a lot of time together or, you know, have been running separate directions, which, you know, happens at a time, then we’ve got to take stock of that and just say, okay, we need some, we need some time for ourselves.

Go for a walk let’s let’s connect so that we’re not two ships that are passing in the night and we can be, We can be a couple and be together in this.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:08:29] So, well, there’s other things too, that you have decided, in order to, to mitigate as much exposure to pornography as possible, there are some things that you’ve made decisions about.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:08:45] yeah. I mean, I still have accountability software on my computer.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:08:48] you know, he has covenant eyes,

David Samuel, Guest: [01:08:50] covenant

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:08:50] eyes too. I’ll put a link in the show notes.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:08:54] you know, even if I’m because big as now, I’m, I’m doing a lot more traveling. You know, one of the things that I do is that I will take the remote, never take the batteries out of the remote control on the television.

I’ve I’ve promised myself I’m not going to watch television in the motel room.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:09:09] and actually pause that cause people are like, why do you have to shut it off? If you’ve traveled for business, when you turn those things on, even in the high end chains, like you can be in a Hilton or Sheridan, you can be in a Marriott in Italy.

As soon as you turn that TV on, it goes right to porn. Literally, there’s a selection for porn and sometimes they even show clips. So if you’re sitting there just to look for pay-per-view, I wanna watch the new Rocky movie. You might literally be exposed to that. And you know, if someone has an addiction with alcohol, you don’t want to put them in a bar, but yet every hotel in the world, almost they put porn right there because they make.

30 40 bucks a shot at it. Sure.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:09:50] And so I, I just, I take the batteries out of the remote. Now I did, I did run into one hotel that actually had the battery compartment screwed down. So you couldn’t actually do [01:10:00] that was kind of disappointing. So I just had to put it in a drawer and put it at a site and then say, no, I’m not going to do this, you know, take a book along and I’ll read.

but you know, I mean on a business trip, you’re. Your brain is fried by the time you get done in the evenings. And it’s like, okay, I need to relax. Well, then I’ve got to find some other way to do that. Either reading or I I’ll call Kirsten will go on a video call and we’ll do that. So yeah, those are just some little things that I’ve, that I’ve done.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:10:30] I was just saying, if you’re struggling, if you’re at a low, you absolutely call her up and she’s your accountability partner, right? No, no sarcasm. I’m sorry.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:10:40] I am accountable. Yes.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:10:41] You’re accountable to her. But would you go to her with the failures? Because I want people listening to understand. You can just be continuously damaging the relationship.

By saying I failed again. I failed again. I failed again, explain that dynamic of the

David Samuel, Guest: [01:10:54] relationship. I was told not to, when we set up, when I set up the accountability software on the computer, I was told not to have Kirsten as one of the accountability partners, because of that very thing of, you know, Seeing all the failures would discourage her from any progress it was being made.

so she is not an accountability partner. However, I am accountable to her.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:11:18] Absolutely. I just feel that struggling, like, Hey, I’m thinking about other women. You don’t go to your wife with that now.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:11:24] I don’t think that’s very helpful, but I do have guys that I call and just say, okay, Hey, pray for me.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:11:30] He does.

He has, he has a group of guys that. Form this continuing accountability group. And again, these are, these are men that speak into his life and are not afraid to get right in his face and say, what do you think you’re doing? I have the same kind of people in my life, same women in my life, in my life that do the same thing.

So when he has had struggles and when he has not been as, as healthy as he wants to be. He has talked with them and eventually he tells me, but he works through what happened with the accountability partners. And I think that’s very key to understand is, well, yes, we are accountable to each other. I don’t go running to him with absolutely, you know, everything right away.

He knows everything. But if I have an issue that I need to work through an, I need, I need to go to one of the people, the women that I trust and go to them and, and get gut-level honest and talk this through. And then I can go to Dave and say, okay, here’s the struggle. Here’s what I’m doing about it. And I need you to know about it because I need, I need your support.

And what that tells me as the wife of, of, you know, a man who has been addicted to porn is he’s aware and he’s working on it. And his desire is to continue to, to walk as the man of God that I know that he is. And, and yet he’s, he’s not hiding from me what’s happening. So there’s, there’s that still that complete honesty and, and accountability.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:13:11] One of the, I think one of the lies that a lot of couples believe is that, as a man I can fulfill all of Kirsten’s needs and as a woman, Kirsten can fulfill all of my needs. And that is just not true because I’m male and she’s female, and there are only. I don’t relate to her in the same way as some of her her girlfriends do.

And it’s just because I’m not female. So there needs to be those friendships outside of, I guess I should say same sex friendships outside of the marriage where I’ve got. I’ve got key men in my life that are speaking into me and I can go and say, Hey, man, I’m really struggling with this. Can you pray with me?

And then likewise, she has key women in her life that are telling her the same thing. And so then we come together. We’re, we’re better

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:14:02] for that, right? Yeah. I agree. A hundred percent men with men, women with women. And if you believe the lie that men and women can be friends, you’re just, you know, the truth in your heart.

I that’s breaks more marriages and everything else. And that has more teens, loser, Virginia than anything else. Guys and girls can be friends. No, they can’t. I mean, you can be acquaintances and it can be friends, but not that intimate, private sharing level. That’s just a lie. And that’s like, one of the things I get so discussed, I’m like, listen, be honest.

You like that person be honest that you enjoy the sin. Don’t be a liar and say, Oh, we give you friends. Come on. Or, you know, there’s all sorts of things we all lie about, but alright, well, I love by the way that gut-level honest, gut level honest. I never heard that before. So. All right. Well, listen, we covered a lot of ground, a lot of territory, and I know there’s a lot more for the guys and girls out there, the men and women listening to this, you know, [01:15:00] the statistic, you said the average earning couple takes six years to get help.

Some people listening now it’s more, some people it’s less. What are the steps? Like you’ve already mentioned them all throughout this thing. If you were to summarize real quick, step one, step two, step three. And I know when we get to the counselor step, it’s just not any counselor. It’s a godly counselor.

One that doesn’t believe in divorce. One that truly is going to give God’s opinion, not take sides. So go ahead and give the steps or the couples listening right now, or one half of the couple and the other half not interested. Give them the what encouraged you in the hope.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:15:36] The first step is to own it, into admit like Dave said early on.

When it comes to addiction, you will not change until you accept what is fact right now. And that’s the key is that it is fact right now it is not have to remain fact for the rest of your life. It is your current status. So don’t buy the lie that you’re stuck. You’re not.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:16:04] Yeah. James talks about confessing your sins to one another and praying for each other that you may be healed.

And that is, Hey, this is what I’m struggling with. Would you pray for me? Right. And let’s, let’s pray about this together. So that’s,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:16:17] that’s the first step one is, is acknowledging.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:16:20] And that’s not before the whole church that’s privately. No, no, no. I’m saying, you know, some people they’re not. Yeah, I’m just going to be blunt.

There’s people who are they’re Christian gossipers. They say, Oh, please pray for this. It’s not rare. It’s your gossip. And you want either emotion. You want to seem important. So you stop it. You’re in sin there. You need to get that right?

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:16:39] Yes.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:16:41] You’re talking about friendship, iron sharpening iron,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:16:43] right?

Right. You have to go to that one person like Dave, Dave went to, our one friend and came completely clean this friend. Not only accepted what Dave told him agreed that it was not okay. Okay. So he didn’t brush over the sin. He didn’t brush over the problem. He agreed that this was a prob that this had to be changed.

This could not continue, but then he became part of the solution. So you need a person like that. Now that could be your spouse. I don’t know. Probably not. It’s going to be a person. Again is someone who you can trust that is safe, but it’s also truth teller. And that’s very key. You need a truth teller, so you go to them and then you, you start to build a plan.

Part of that plan then is going to involve, you have to tell your spouse what’s going on. Then you need to get,

David Samuel, Guest: [01:17:42] and if there’s children involved, you’re in their adult children, right. You need to tell me if they’re their kids. I wouldn’t probably do that. Our children to the point where they were adults, you know, they were, they were married and we needed to, I needed to come clean and, and ask for their support.

Cause they were also a part of accountability. Yeah.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:18:01] So then you need outside help. And that was one of the wisest pieces of first information that we got was you need counseling. You both need counseling. whether you’re the one addicted to pornography or not, you need counseling. I didn’t understand that, but it was very true and it became evident very, very quickly.

So you need, you need that. one of the ways that that, that you can do that is you can reach out to someone like me. Who’s a coach. I’m not a counselor. I am a coach and there’s a difference. But you can reach out to someone like me for For that unbiased third party to help you identify next steps to help you guide you.

and we’ve worked with couples that, are struggling with pornography addiction, and we have worked alongside a counselor with them. So that we, we provide prayer support. We provide, biblical counsel, and, and then they’re, they’re working with a counselor to deal with probably some psychological issues or something like that that are going on, but you need to reach out to a professional, someone who will.

Honestly, listen that then an unbiased third party. And then,

David Samuel, Guest: [01:19:20] well, let me just jump in real quick. One of the, one of the things that I had, I hang up that I had about the counseling was, gosh, this is going to be a lot of coin. I’m going to be spending a lot of money here.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:19:31] Yeah. It’s not cheap.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:19:32] It’s not cheap.

And if you have a budgeted for that, which is kind of what I like to do, you know, it can be a real hit, but. The question is, and the question that was given to me was what is it worth to you, Dave, for your wife to be healed? Yeah, I would do anything for Kirsten and I’d pay anything for Kirsten for myself.

I skimp on myself, but yeah, what was it worth for her to [01:20:00] be healed? And that was the thing that said, okay, then, then it’s, then it’s worth it. I’m going to, I’m going to make that sacrifice and we’re going to, we’re going to do that and make it whole,

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:20:08] I said divorce costs a whole lot, much more.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:20:11] That’s

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:20:11] exactly.

I was going to say

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:20:13] the average divorce is what? 30, I think the average divorce today. Is almost it’s 35 to $40,000 per side. Right. And that’s not the elite, they’re saying the average. So the rich, the poor everything in between the average divorce is about 80 grand. And the only person who wins is sane and the attorneys, everybody else loses.

You think you won, you lost, you hurt your kids. You hurt your families.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:20:40] Toll is even

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:20:41] even greater.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:20:42] Oh yeah. And we can make money back. But we can’t get time back. So what you’re saying, if you took 40 grand, if you took 10 grand, that’s a lot of counseling, even at 150 bucks a session. So you really gotta be honest again with your intentions and you don’t have to agree with me.

I believe personally, the only biblical reason for divorce is physical adultery. So I believe there’s other hurtful things. And again, if someone’s in an abusive relationship and there’s danger, you need to leave and separate hundred percent. Yes. But the only grounds for biblical divorce that I can see in the Bible is physical adultery, and God still hates that and doesn’t want it.

So that’s like the last ditch effort because he knows how painful it is and how harsh it is. And how mentally just, it can destroy you in a way.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:21:30] So I would classify the pornography is as adultery, adultery, physical adultery.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:21:36] Yeah. I see. No, I’m not disagreeing. I don’t see it as physical Doughtery, but I see it as adultery against God.

So that’s where we differ. Like if someone looked at porn, I wouldn’t say that’s a reason for divorce. That’s me personally.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:21:49] Yeah, but the

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:21:50] murder, if I hate somebody, I’m not going to jail for killing them, my vertical relationship with God, the one that matters is completely wrong, but horizontally, I didn’t actually commit the sin.

So that’s the only thing I’d say different, but I just want to put that out there for you, the whole purpose, and you guys can correct Adam, but what I’m going to say is. David Kirsten myself. Our whole point is put every effort into saving your marriage. Put every effort into being restore. Don’t just quit and those problems are going to follow you and just get

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:22:22] worse.

Yeah. And that’s that’s the next thing is you have to make the decision. It is a conscious decision that you’re going to work this out. You know, and that is going to mean investing some dollars in counseling and coaching. It’s going to mean that you are going to set up set aside some past behaviors. you’re going to have to admit, you know, that’s that whole being accountable, owning your own or your own mess, and you’re going to have to come clean on some things, but.

We’re here to say that the other side of that is so much more right. Amazing. Then where we were.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:23:06] That’s where I was gonna say, let’s end the episode on the hope, what all of this, the problem, the solutions, but where does it end show more an ends. Talk about the hope of where you’re at.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:23:16] It’s it’s living with the other person.

Without any barriers? Yes. It’s freedom. It’s

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:23:23] it’s fun. Yeah. It’s fun. I mean, I’ve lived, you know, I live more than half of my life as an ex, you know, in a lot of pessimism in a lot of, you know, Oh boy, this is not going to happen an old boy. You know, you know, why, why, why? And, you know, ER, picture, ER, with the cloud above my head, I’ve lived almost to half of my life.

That way more than half of my life, that way. And as God has remade and given us this brand new opportunity, this brand new marriage, I like him a whole lot better than I did 25 years ago. Okay. Because he’s not that guy and there’s not this, since that I have that, there’s something between us. It’s not there.

And that’s the hope. And that’s exactly the lie that Satan doesn’t want you to grab on to that. If you come clean, you know, scripture says that the truth sets us free. The lie is if you tell people what’s going on, if you tell the other person, if you go to someone, you call up someone like me and you say, I just have to tell you what’s happening in my marriage.

That, that that person is going to condemn you and think that you’re an absolute idiot. And how could you do this? That’s a lie. Every time. I hear the story from another woman that her husband’s addicted to porn. This is what’s going on in the marriage. Whether we’re in person on the phone or doing a zoom call like this, I have tears running down my face because I know where you are.

[01:25:00] I have been there, but I also know the hope. I know you don’t have to stay there. It can get better, but I will not lie to you. And neither will Dave, both of us know the battle that’s ahead of you. But. It can be one. It has already been won. You just get to walk though. The victory lap let’s do it. Yeah.

David Samuel, Guest: [01:25:26] That’s not to say that there are no problems. No. Okay. We still, we still have issues that we need to work through. We still fall into old patterns of, of speech and thought. but usually the other person is strong enough to pull out and say, okay, that’s. That’s not what, what you should, that’s not true.

That’s a lie, you know, what is the, what is the truth here? And we’re able to exercise those things. So it’s not a Pollyanna ish thing of well, everything’s great. But, in

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:25:54] fact, before all of this happened, I thought we had a perfect marriage.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:25:58] Yeah. They’re probably never because we never fought. Everything was hidden.

That’s

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:26:03] right. That’s right. I was not authentic. Dave was not authentic. I would not speak my mind. I would not say I don’t agree with you. You know, I would have, I would have in an interview with you, Dave, I would have gone. huh sure. And never pushed back on anything. I would never have dared because then you might expose me.

And that was too frightening. Well, now it’s like, you know, somebody asked me just even recently, you know, well, how can you talk about, you know, pornography addiction and, and all of this. And I looked at him and I said, I published it in a book, anybody in the entire world, over eight and a half billion people can pick it up and read it.

What do I have to hide? Yeah, there’s, there’s freedom in not having to hide

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:26:50] man in that bottle or that you mentioned it earlier. The darkness, you know, first John talks about the darkness and the light, the truth versus secrets, the hiding versus the openness. And Satan’s always trying to push us and make us think the dark safety when it’s, that’s where the destruction is.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:27:06] So worried about your reputation about looking good, then you’re going to hide. If you are worried about being who you are, if you’re more concerned about being who you are and being free, then you’re going to come clean and you have to decide what is more important. Because I was bearing in my body, the physical manifestations of hiding.

I was starting to have heart attack symptoms. I had anxiety. I would get anxiety attacks. I had a pain in every joint in my body. I was retaining fluids and I was gaining weight rapidly and you can go on and on and on and on. And it wasn’t until I came clean and I started to admit the problems that, that my body began to start to heal.

Yeah. So it’s not just emotional and mental. You know, it’s still a struggle. It’s still a struggle because I had to admit that I was addicted to food as well, but I was also addicted to having a, to being known and in a certain way to having a good reputation and now, Oh, well or

David Samuel, Guest: [01:28:21] who we are.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:28:22] We are who I am, who I am.

And I know who I am because. I have accepted Jesus free gift of salvation, and therefore I stand complete and made perfect in his sight and he calls me his daughter. And that’s all I need.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:28:37] Yep. Well, I thank you. And on behalf of all of our listeners, we thank you for being on the show today. Alright, thank you for sharing your story and giving us such great insight and advice.

Is there anything else before we close this episode out that you want to say or share?

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:28:54] Well, we wanted to give a gift to everyone who listens to your podcast to honor you, but I have a request with this gift. Okay. So if you go to my website, Kirsten de samuel.com forward slash remarkable, and Kirsten is spelled K I R S T E N it’s D as in David, Samuel is S a M U E L.

Just like the first name. And then forward slash remarkable, which stands for your podcast, David. you can get a free copy of our story, our book, just pay the shipping and handling of $9, but you, you go there and I will autographic if you want more than one book, you can get as many as you want. Just tell me who you want them autographed to, if you want them personalized or just, you know, just autographed.

And we’ll be happy to send that to you. But here’s what we want you to do is when you get that book, or if you listened to this podcast, I want you to post on social media. And I want you to take this podcast if you will. And, just say that you’ve listened to it. Cause I want you to help Dave build his podcast and, Then the other second part of that is I would like you to go and write an [01:30:00] Amazon review on the book and be honest.

We want honest reviews of the book. It’s our story. It’s not a perfect story. And it’s not a clean story, but it is our story. And it is a story of hope in what God can do when we’re willing to submit to him. Right.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:30:15] Amen. Well, thank you guys so much. That’s a great gift. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know you’re going to do that, so thank you.

I appreciate it. and to the listeners, we love you. I’m saying I’m a lot. Cause I’m thinking now, so to the listeners, we always say in the slogan, listen to repeat for life. Anything we listen to, we can hear all the truth and we’re all like I heard a statistic. If you listened to the episode with Tim Moore the other day, there’s a statistic that over 1 million books are produced per year.

That’s a lot of knowledge, but the truth is all truth comes from God. All truth comes from the Bible. So get Dave and Kirsten’s book because that summarizes that part of truth and expands on it to help you understand how to become victorious. If you need help, reach out to Kirsten and reach out to me. I don’t, I can’t help you in this area maybe necessarily, but I can help connect you with people who can and don’t quit.

It’s worth fighting for it’s worth fighting for God to honor him to reform fighting for yourself. So you can sleep at night with peace. Like Kirsten said, her whole body changed the physical structure, the pains, the aches that all went away. When you get this freedom and do it for your marriage, it’s worth it.

Even if your spouse has hurt you beyond imagination, what we could ever even put on the air. Like so like different story that can all be healed. It wouldn’t take a miracle, but God’s in the business of miracles. Right. Right. So thank you too, for being here today. We love you. Thanks for being here so much.

Kirsten Samuel, Guest: [01:31:43] Thanks, David.

David Pasqualone, Host: [01:31:44] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. To the listener. Thank you for listening. it’s hard to share a podcast like this, but do it as much as you can in the loving way you can. you definitely don’t want to hurt people and say, Hey, scumbag, wasn’t this, I know you got a problem, but be loving and say, man, maybe this will help.

So that’s why we’re here. We want to help. We want to glorify God. We want to help to see you grow. So if you need anything, let me know if not have a great day until next down is a remarkable people. Podcast have a great day. We love you and see you soon. The remarkable people podcast. Check it out.

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David and Kirsten Samuel on the Remarkable People Podcast with David Pasqualone
The Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman
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